Illegal Immigrants

[Amarok]

The bottom line = all of you guys are full of shit and it's obvious to everyone who has been reading this thread.

That description  fits you beautifully and no only you have come to this conclusion based only on projecting your own dark fatalistic view of the world .

[Mister Agenda]

It's become obvious that people who whine on behalf of asylum seekers are just posing to make themselves look empathic.  They are not really interested in helping people who are truly in need of protection from oppression around the world  They just like to raise a ruckus to get some feel good points.  

The bottom line = all of you guys are full of shit and it's obvious to everyone who has been reading this thread.

Right, because if we think we should take in as many as we reasonably can, we must be for taking n everyone in the whole world (apparently including the majority that don't even want to move here).

[RoadRunner79]

If you want to change the immigration policies, I would suggest that you contact your representatives.  Or I am happy to discuss, if you have an idea.  However what you feel the immigration policy should be, I believe is a different topic from what to do with those who violate those laws.

How about we follow the procedures in place and look to congress if we don't like them instead of playing 'hey, let's try taking their children away, that'll send a message'.

Ok....Congress passed the laws (some time ago), that separated children from their parents.   And to some extent previous administrations did this very same thing.   We also separate US citizens from their children when they go to jail as well.  The difference now is the zero tolerance policy, where all illegal immigrants are being detained for prosecution.   And the way things are now, are not great either.   People know that if they bring a kid along (doesn't always have to be their kid), that they would be released and given a court date, which they may or may not show up for.   The girl in the picture from Time Magazine, was taken from her father, and two other siblings.  The mother just took off, with no regard for the father.  

And I believe that the republicans have been trying to change the laws.

[Amarok]

Yeah absurdity

[Mister Agenda]

How about we follow the procedures in place and look to congress if we don't like them instead of playing 'hey, let's try taking their children away, that'll send a message'.

Ok....Congress passed the laws (some time ago), that separated children from their parents.  

Exactly what law is that, RoadRunner?

[RoadRunner79]

Ok....Congress passed the laws (some time ago), that separated children from their parents.  

Exactly what law is that, RoadRunner?

To my knowledge it is the laws, which allow for 6 months jail time as a consequence of illegal entry into the country. And the laws that prevent children from being held for more than 20 days.

[Mister Agenda]

Exactly what law is that, RoadRunner?

To my knowledge it is the laws, which allow for 6 months jail time as a consequence of illegal entry into the country. And the laws that prevent children from being held for more than 20 days.

And if the parents have not been sentenced to jail time, what would be the justification of separating them from their children then? Remember, they were taking the children of legal asylum seekers away as well, and due process applies to everyone in the country.

[RoadRunner79]

To my knowledge it is the laws, which allow for 6 months jail time as a consequence of illegal entry into the country. And the laws that prevent children from being held for more than 20 days.

And if the parents have not been sentenced to jail time, what would be the justification of separating them from their children then? Remember, they were taking the children of legal asylum seekers away as well, and due process applies to everyone in the country.

What I heard was this did not apply to those legally seeking asylum. And there I would agree, that you can’t use that justification. I also think it would be wrong, unless there is some other reason to.

[Mister Agenda]

Yet, the administration was still separating children from legal asylum seekers who presented themselves at designated border checkpoints as required by law. And the children of those not sentenced to jail time were taken away as well. You can be sentenced to jail time for driving without a license, it doesn't mean they can take your kids away before you've seen a judge.

And you've heard of this law. I haven't (the one you described limits child detention, thank goodness, but it doesn't prescribe seizing children prior to any sentencing), and I've yet to hear from anyone who can cite it. Somehow previous administrations have managed not to accumulate thousands of separated children in a matter of weeks. Maybe, just maybe, those administrations were the ones doing it right.

And the court has ordered the children to be returned to their parents. Apparently the judge couldn't find the law in question either.

[Brian37]

How about we follow the procedures in place and look to congress if we don't like them instead of playing 'hey, let's try taking their children away, that'll send a message'.

Ok....Congress passed the laws (some time ago), that separated children from their parents.   And to some extent previous administrations did this very same thing.   We also separate US citizens from their children when they go to jail as well.  The difference now is the zero tolerance policy, where all illegal immigrants are being detained for prosecution.   And the way things are now, are not great either.   People know that if they bring a kid along (doesn't always have to be their kid), that they would be released and given a court date, which they may or may not show up for.   The girl in the picture from Time Magazine, was taken from her father, and two other siblings.  The mother just took off, with no regard for the father.  

And I believe that the republicans have been trying to change the laws.

Separating a child in this context is not the same as taking a child away from a violent felon or addict or even abuser. 

And I don't know what source you are basing this on, but I watched an interview with the agent who stopped them, and he mentioned nothing about the mother simply taking off. He only clarified that while she cried, she stopped crying when he handed her back to the mother. 

Now that actually proves my point. The child's discomfort was minutes, not hours, not days not months. The longer the separation the more harm can be done to the kid.

I may not be a migrant, but I can speak on separation because I was adopted. IT DOES have a psychological effect on a kid, voluntary or forced. My biological mother was not forced to give me up, but for economic reasons. Even in that case, even both her and I being legal citizens, it still has a negative effect even in that case. I suffered separation anxiety, and that was already on top of the fact that I now know depression runs in my family. And as an adult, I was told by my social worker who ended up connecting me to my biological family explained that effect, both on the adopted and the family they get separated from. 

I think it is wrong to assume everyone who comes here, with or without papers is a violent criminal, the opposite is the case. Of course a kid with a parent in prison even if the parent is American, yes, but you cannot treat the two as equal.

It is wrong to treat adults, much less kids, whom come here as if all are violent criminals. Just like it was wrong to turn away a boat full of Jews in WW2. 

Can we or should we stop all  deportation? That is not the argument. The real argument cuts to what kind of nation do we want to be? Do we want to base our laws on presumption of guilt, scrap due process and base our laws on fear? I say NO!