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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2018 at 10:37 am by robvalue.)
(July 25, 2018 at 10:35 am)Mathilda Wrote: (July 25, 2018 at 10:29 am)robvalue Wrote: That's interesting, I didn't know I go to atheist churches.
Same here. Life became easier though once I started writing my name and address on the back of my hand.
That's a great idea!
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 11:54 am
(July 25, 2018 at 3:29 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Therefore if you claim that "Virtually everything that exists in the world is either a system or part of a system." then you imply that virtually everything has an overall purpose.
Ergo designer.
That's a stretch, even for you.
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 12:04 pm
(July 25, 2018 at 3:29 am)Huggy74 Wrote: (July 24, 2018 at 7:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The fact that you can choke to death while eating suggests that there is no such thing as "intelligent design." Or an intelligent "designer."
If we were so badly designed then according to evolution we would have died off...
No it doesn't. That is just your complete misunderstanding of evolution rearing its ignorant head.
Evolution is only concerned with reproductive success. Survival of species is what is important, not survival of individuals.
The only way our 'bad design' would threaten our existence as a species, if it threatened our species' reproductive success. All we have to do is survive into viable reproductive age, not old age.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 12:16 pm
(July 25, 2018 at 1:29 am)robvalue Wrote: Would these people be less confused if I said I'm a nontheist, or I'm not a theist?
They go through life confused because they cannot separate reality from their bullshit.
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 12:40 pm
(July 24, 2018 at 7:23 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The fact that you can choke to death while eating suggests that there is no such thing as "intelligent design." Or an intelligent "designer."
So if car car wits working, that shows that it evolved and was not intelligently desighned. I think there is a flaw in your reasoning.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 12:43 pm
Quote:So if car working, that shows that it evolved and was not intelligently designed I think there is a flaw in your reasoning.
Nope we expect sub optimal or even really sub optimal biology if evolution were true .This is not expected in ID and can only be explained by ad hoc bullshit.
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 1:05 pm
(July 25, 2018 at 12:43 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:So if car working, that shows that it evolved and was not intelligently designed I think there is a flaw in your reasoning.
Nope we expect sub optimal or even really sub optimal biology if evolution were true .This is not expected in ID and can only be explained by ad hoc bullshit.
Yes, so then it would follow that my car working sub optimally, shows that it evolved, rather than being designed by an intelligent agent. Never mind, that I was trying to run it through water too fast.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 1:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2018 at 1:25 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Yes, so then it would follow that my car working sub optimally, shows that it evolved, rather than being designed by an intelligent agent. Never mind, that I was trying to run it through water too fast
Wow a stupid analogy that does not address the point and tries to sneak unfounded nonsense into the convo.
If life were designed we would expect it to be optimal as their is no rational reason it should not be and mere functionality is not enough.
If life is the result of evolution we expect it to be sub optimal because of the undirected forces involved but it should still function
Your attempt to compare a car you broke to the nature of life is just absurd .
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 1:23 pm
(July 25, 2018 at 1:11 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:Yes, so then it would follow that my car working sub optimally, shows that it evolved, rather than being designed by an intelligent agent. Never mind, that I was trying to run it through water too fast
Wow a stupid analogy that does not address the point and tries to sneak unfounded nonsense into the convo.
If life were designed we would expect it to be optimal as their is no rational reason it should not be and mere functionality is not enough.
If life is the result of evolution we expect it to be sub optimal because of the undirected forces involved but it should still function
Optimal for what (or in whose opinion)? Why do you not think that the same reasoning would apply to my car? Have you considered, that this argument is based on faulty reasoning and or assumptions? This is not a very good argument against design or for evolution as is seen easily when applied to my car, or any other thing that we know is designed.
That and evidence shows that changes by chance are far more likely to cause dysfunction, than to create new functions.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
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RE: Atheism
July 25, 2018 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2018 at 1:31 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:Optimal for what (or in whose opinion)?
Depends on the biological function
Quote:Why do you not think that the same reasoning would apply to my car?
Nope invalid anology
Quote: Have you considered, that this argument is based on faulty reasoning and or assumptions?
Nope because it's not
Quote: This is not a very good argument against design or for evolution as is seen easily when applied to my car, or any other thing that we know is designed.
That's just the point that you for refuting your argument for me . You can't compare them .
Quote:That and evidence shows that changes by chance are far more likely to cause dysfunction, than to create new functions.
And that does not refute my point
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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