Massacre of the Innocents

[Fake Messiah]

Huggy, like most xhristards, thinks "real historians" are those that tell him what he wants to hear.

Theists should keep in mind that mythicists win in biblical studies. Take the Old Testament: It's no longer taboo for historians to declare that Adam, Eve, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Jonah, Joseph, Joshua, Moses, Noah, Sampson, Ruth and Boaz, and a sizable portion of the Old Testament's other most prominent major characters never existed. They are purely literary creations.

Like Richard Carrier says:

"Moses is now regarded as fictional, yet like Jesus he performed miracles, had huge numbers of followers, gave speeches and had travels, and dictated laws. No mainstream historian today believes the book of Deuteronomy was even written in the same century as Moses, much less by Moses, or that it preserves anything Moses actually said or did – yet it purports to do so, at extraordinary length and in remarkable detail. No real historian today would accept as valid an argument like ‘Moses had to have existed, because so many sayings and teachings were attributed to him!’And yet if this argument is invalid for Moses, it’s invalid for Jesus."

And also he points out the problems of historical Jesus:

The quest for the historical Jesus has failed spectacularly. More importantly, the many contradictory versions of Jesus now confidently touted by different Jesus scholars are all so very plausible – yet not all can be true. In fact, as only one can be (and that at most), almost all must be false. So the establishment of this kind of “strong plausibility” has been decisively proved not to be a reliable indicator of the truth. Yet Jesus scholars keep treating it as if it were.

This has left us with a confused mass of disparate opinions, vast libraries of theories and interpretations essentially impossible to keep up with, and no real attempts at improving or criticizing the worst and gathering the best into any sort of coherent consensus view of what actually happened at the dawn of Christianity, or even during its first two hundred years.

[Succubus]

Except no real historians think the same as you do... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels. While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.

Oww goody, time to post this again.
All the 'bible scholars' listed below are from the references in your link.

Clinton E. Arnold: president of the Evangelical Theological Society.

C. K. Barrett: Professor of Divinity at the University of Durham.

Richard Bauckham: “the Gospel of John is written by an eyewitness”

Gregory K. Beale: Professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology.

Craig Blomberg: Professor of the New Testament at Denver Seminary.

Darrell Bock: evangelical Christian and New Testament scholar.

Rudolf Karl Bultmann: Lutheran theologian and professor of New Testament.

Gary M. Burge: ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church.

D. A. Carson: Evangelical theologian and professor of the New Testament.

John H. Walton: professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College

James Dunn: Lightfoot Professor of Divinity.

Gordon D. Fee: Professor Emeritus of New Testament Studies.

Simon Gathercole: Director of Studies in Theology, Fitzwilliam College.

Joel B Green: Dean of the School of Theology Fuller Theological Seminary.

Robert Horton Gundry: professor of New Testament studies and Koine Greek.

Martin Hengel: Emeritus Professor of New Testament.

Larry Hurtado: Emeritus Professor of New Testament Language, Literature and Theology.

Karen Jobes: PhD from Westminster Theological Seminary.

Craig Keener: Professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary.

George Eldon Ladd: Baptist minister and professor of New Testament exegesis.

Richard N. Longenecker: Professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College.

Howard Marshall: Professor Emeritus of New Testament Exegesis.

Scot McKnight: professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Bruce M. Metzger: professor at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Douglas J. Moo: Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois.

Leon Morris: ordained to the Anglican ministry in 1938.

Grant Osborne: degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Archibald Thomas Robertson: Southern Baptist preacher and biblical scholar.

Frank Stagg: Ph.D. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Graham N. Stanton: Lady Margaret's Professor of Divinity Cambridge.
University
Robert L. Thomas: president of the Evangelical Theological Society.

Francis Watson: Christian scholar and professor of New Testament Exegesis.

Rikk E. Watts: Master of Divinity Gordon-Conwell.

Michael J. Wilkins: M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary.

Ben Witherington III: ordained pastor in the United Methodist Church.

Nicholas Thomas Wright: New Testament scholar, and retired Anglican bishop.

[Huggy Bear]

Except no real historians think the same as you do... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels. While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.

Oww goody, time to post this again.
All the 'bible scholars' listed below are from the references in your link.

---

Clinton E. Arnold: president of the Evangelical Theological Society.

C. K. Barrett: Professor of Divinity at the University of Durham.

Richard Bauckham: “the Gospel of John is written by an eyewitness”

Gregory K. Beale: Professor of New Testament and Biblical Theology.

Craig Blomberg: Professor of the New Testament at Denver Seminary.

Darrell Bock: evangelical Christian and New Testament scholar.

Rudolf Karl Bultmann: Lutheran theologian and professor of New Testament.

Gary M. Burge: ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church.

D. A. Carson: Evangelical theologian and professor of the New Testament.

John H. Walton: professor of Old Testament at Wheaton College

James Dunn: Lightfoot Professor of Divinity.

Gordon D. Fee: Professor Emeritus of New Testament Studies.

Simon Gathercole: Director of Studies in Theology, Fitzwilliam College.

Joel B Green: Dean of the School of Theology Fuller Theological Seminary.

Robert Horton Gundry: professor of New Testament studies and Koine Greek.

Martin Hengel: Emeritus Professor of New Testament.

Larry Hurtado: Emeritus Professor of New Testament Language, Literature and Theology.

Karen Jobes: PhD from Westminster Theological Seminary.

Craig Keener: Professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary.

George Eldon Ladd: Baptist minister and professor of New Testament exegesis.

Richard N. Longenecker: Professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College.

Howard Marshall: Professor Emeritus of New Testament Exegesis.

Scot McKnight: professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Bruce M. Metzger: professor at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Douglas J. Moo: Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois.

Leon Morris: ordained to the Anglican ministry in 1938.

Grant Osborne: degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Archibald Thomas Robertson: Southern Baptist preacher and biblical scholar.

Frank Stagg: Ph.D. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Graham N. Stanton: Lady Margaret's Professor of Divinity Cambridge.
University
Robert L. Thomas: president of the Evangelical Theological Society.

Francis Watson: Christian scholar and professor of New Testament Exegesis.

Rikk E. Watts: Master of Divinity Gordon-Conwell.

Michael J. Wilkins: M.Div., Talbot Theological Seminary.

Ben Witherington III: ordained pastor in the United Methodist Church.

Nicholas Thomas Wright: New Testament scholar, and retired Anglican bishop.

---

There are clearly 124 references listed (they are numbered dummy), among which are Richard Carrier and Bart Ehrman, tell me why you only list 36?

(That's  a rhetorical question btw)

You're clearly a dishonest troll.

*EDIT*
Upon further investigation it looks like the majority of your 'bible scholars' aren't even listed in the references of the Wikki link (I see three: James Dunn, Scot McKnight and Bruce M. Metzger)

So I'm curious as to where you really obtained your list.


Is bald faced lying a new atheist tactic now?

Oh yeah, shout out to Mister Agenda for kudosing that nonsense, and you guys refer to theists as sheep...

[Minimalist]

Um, I refer to theists as fucking morons.  Please get it straight.

[Amarok]

Virtually all New Testament scholars and Near East historians, applying the standard criteria of historical investigation, find that the historicity of Jesus is effectively certain although they differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the gospels. While scholars have criticized Jesus scholarship for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions such critics generally do support the historicity of Jesus and reject the Christ myth theory that Jesus never existed.

That's great too band they never get around to providing a good reason why they believe it

Except no real historians think the same as you do... 

Carrier is a real historian and history is not majority rules .

---

and you guys refer to theists as sheep..

Because you are sheep

---

Is bald faced lying a new atheist tactic now?

You don't even get to talk on that subject

[Minimalist]

Part of Ehrman's discussion of the doctrine of the Trinity from "Jesus Interrupted."

And so the emperorcalled a meeting in Nicaea of the most important Christian bishops
in the empire, in order to debate the issues and to make a judgment
to be binding on all Christians. This was the famous Council of
Nicaea of the year 325 CE.

In the end the council voted for Athanasius’s position. Contrary
to what is sometimes said, it was nearly a unanimous decision, not
a close vote. Still, even after that day the debates continued, and for
a while in the fourth century it looked as though the Arians were
going to emerge victorious after all. But eventually the orthodox
position was that of Athanasius. There are three persons in the Godhead.
They are distinct from each other. But each one is equally God.
All three are eternal beings. And they all are of the same substance.
This, then, is the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is quite a development from anything found in the New Testament,
where there is no explicit statement of anything of the sort.
Not even in a document like the Gospel of John, where Jesus is
thought of as divine, is there any discussion of three being one in
substance. As you might expect, later scribes of the New Testament
found this lack disturbing, and so in one place at least they inserted
an explicit reference to the Trinity (1 John 5:7–8).9 The Trinity is
a later Christian invention, which was based, in the arguments of
Athanasius and others, on passages of Scripture but which does not
actually appear in any of the books of the New Testament.

Your core beliefs were decided by a committee vote to please a Roman Emperor, Huggy.  And they phonied up some of your precious scripture to say so.  I hope you are proud.  Meanwhile, in spite of Nicaea Arianism continued to thrive for centuries particularly among the barbarian tribes who swept in and overran the Western Roman Empire from Gaul to Spain to North Africa.

[Abaddon_ire]

So much for inerrancy then, eh?  I imagine Huggy and a few others on here will insist to their dying breath that the star took the reins of the horses and led them right to the fucking manger.

I won't tar you with that brush.

I don't think anyone with half a brain would suggest anything of the sort seeing how it took the wise men 2 years to make the journey,  making Jesus a toddler by the time they reached him.

You think Jesus was in a manger for two years?

Do you think that might be why the bible makes no such claim?

[Fake Messiah]

Yeah, so called "star prophecy” was so popular in old times and was used for these kind of things. Like Jewish historian Josephus mentioned the "star prophecy" toward Vespasian, as did the Roman historians Suetonius and Tacitus. Even the militant Jewish revolutionary Simon bar Kochba (Simon the "son of a star") used the star reference in his name to show his followers that he was one of the men whom God had destined "to go forth and rule the world."

Talking about Bible inerrancists there was a $1000 reward and maybe it's still going on by Ralph Nielsen that went:



So there you go inerrancists you can prove that your Bible is not erroneous by writing that narrative here.

[Huggy Bear]

I don't think anyone with half a brain would suggest anything of the sort seeing how it took the wise men 2 years to make the journey,  making Jesus a toddler by the time they reached him.

You think Jesus was in a manger for two years?

Do you think that might be why the bible makes no such claim?

If you think the wise men showed up while Jesus was in a manger, then you imply that he was there for two years since that was the amont time it took the magi to travel from the point the star first appeared.

[Minimalist]

There were no "wise men," Huggy.  It's all made up.