This is Islam. Malcom X

[WinterHold]

The most realistic, and most logical thing I have ever heard






Just to know, that what you see on the media about Islam today is not actually Islam.
This is Islam.

No wonder Malcom was killed.

[Foxaèr]

Well, yeah, remember this Islam during Malcolm X:

[vulcanlogician]

He was killed by his own religious group, though...

(I did like the video.)

[Brian37]

The most realistic, and most logical thing I have ever heard






Just to know, that what you see on the media about Islam today is not actually Islam.
This is Islam.

No wonder Malcom was killed.

Um Atlass, I think you do a great job fighting the religiously justified violence and sexism coming out of that part of the world.

But just like Malala and Malcolm they still derive their claims of moral justification from the same holy book monsters like Bin Laden and ISIS.

As far as Malcolm himself, I take his entire life into account. His crime as a youth was acting out in desperation because of economic disparity and abuse from bigoted whites. He then went to prison and "found Islam" and stopped committing crimes in the same way a Christian in America finds Jesus and cleans up their act.

He also got dose of reality that his boss was imperfect. The positive message I get from his life, was at the end, when he finally realized that we were the same species.

But he made the same mistake people of all religions worldwide do. The empathetic religious left, whom value compassion fail to realize that there are others of different sub sects of the same umbrella label whom use the same holy writings to justify harm to others.

Just like Martin Luther King Jr, as much of a hero to humanity he was, there were others who used the same bible to justify murdering him.

I do understand Malcolm and why he fought back though. I just don't agree with any theist of any religion as to where they thing our species morality is coming from. I have consistently said that our species morality is not being magically handed down to us from above, nor is it in any holy writing, but has always been in us, in our genes. Our ability to be cruel or compassionate, to lean to violence or non violence, is not magic, it is in the individual.

Too me though, and I have had this debate with my Redneck friend from Oklahoma, the argument over tactics. He's more of a Martin Luther King Jr atheist and I am more of a Malcolm X atheist. I think Malcolm was severely misunderstood on his context of tactics, and even the host in your clip missed the point. I do love that he said basically to whites, "instead of making excuses to allow others to avoid responsibility, own up to your transactions." 

Nor do I think white people back then accepted that Malcolm was not advocating unprovoked violence, but mere self defense.

Let me put it too you this way. I think BOTH Martin Luther King Jr, if had been around during the Civil War would have stood against the South. I also think if they had had been forced to serve in WW2 they both would have fought the Nazis.

[Aroura]

Islam is whatever the people currently practice it make it out to be. Just like Christianity and Buddhism and every other religion, it changes over time.
And it varies from location to location as well as well as sect to sect and person to person.
There is no "true" Islam. There is only whatever the modern interpretation is, wherever you happen to be looking at that point in time.

[Brian37]

Islam is whatever the people currently practice it make it out to be.  Just like Christianity and Buddhism and every other religion, it changes over time.  
And it varies from location to location as well as well as sect to sect and person to person.
There is no "true" Islam.  There is only whatever the modern interpretation is, wherever you happen to be looking at that point in time.

If I may add to this another thing I point out and am very consistent about. Religions DO change over time, I 100% agree.

Having said that, while one cannot force any religion out of existence, for to do so you'd have to become a monster, it is a mistake to focus on one narrow point in human history. There is not one religion in our species entire history that has not had it's transgressions against other religions, or even between the sub sects of the same umbrella religions.

Even in the history of Asia between Buddhist majorities. Japan and China have had their wars and have also committed acts of cruelty on each other.

My point is to say that it isn't the religion that causes an individual to be cruel or causes them to be compassionate, but our evolution. 

Every nation, friend and foe alike, have hospitals and prisons. There were no religions 200,000 years ago, and without written religion, our species were even  back then, displaying acts of cruelty and compassion.

If all we can do as a species, is argue for more compassionate interpretations of our different religions, that is a far better tactic than to demand the forced end of any one group. The only difference between a theist and I is that I simply doubt where they think our ability to do good and be good as a species is coming from. BUT, I will certainly take a Malala or Martin Luther King Jr, or an Ann Frank or a Gandhi over a monster like Hitler, or Po Pot, or KKK members or ISIS.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Didn't watch the video.  I've read enough about Malcolm X to be monumentally uninterested in watching him say stuff.  He was every bit as racist as the white establishment he (justifiably) railed against.

Boru

[Brian37]

Didn't watch the video.  I've read enough about Malcolm X to be monumentally uninterested in watching him say stuff.  He was every bit as racist as the white establishment he (justifiably) railed against.

Boru

No he was NOT, again, take into account his entire life, not cherry pick parts of it.

Late in his life he realized the separatist attitude was wrong and died understanding that we were all the same species.

NOW try to understand WHY he reacted the way he did. If you grow up seeing blacks beaten up and lynched and denied equal rights, you are going to get angry. 

This is the part of his life people miss. If you understand and say "Justifiably so" then you cant call his racism as being the same as white racism. It was a reaction to the abuse. You'd be better to argue he didn't need to go that route, but don't put the reaction in the same category as those whom abused him.

Malcolm was a separatist because he saw white people abusing blacks. But eventually he became disillusioned with that attitude when the rift was created in his Nation of Islam when he realized his hero Elijah Muhammed was not the perfect man he thought he was. At that point he still kept his "by any means" slogan, but finally stopped seeing every white person as his enemy.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Didn't watch the video.  I've read enough about Malcolm X to be monumentally uninterested in watching him say stuff.  He was every bit as racist as the white establishment he (justifiably) railed against.

Boru

No he was NOT, again, take into account his entire life, not cherry pick parts of it.

Late in his life he realized the separatist attitude was wrong and died understanding that we were all the same species.

NOW try to understand WHY he reacted the way he did. If you grow up seeing blacks beaten up and lynched and denied equal rights, you are going to get angry. 

This is the part of his life people miss. If you understand and say "Justifiably so" then you cant call his racism as being the same as white racism. It was a reaction to the abuse. You'd be better to argue he didn't need to go that route, but don't put the reaction in the same category as those whom abused him.

Malcolm was a separatist because he saw white people abusing blacks. But eventually he became disillusioned with that attitude when the rift was created in his Nation of Islam when he realized his hero Elijah Muhammed was not the perfect man he thought he was. At that point he still kept his "by any means" slogan, but finally stopped seeing every white person as his enemy.

Yeah, not going to argue it.

Boru

[Mystic]

Islam is whatever the people currently practice it make it out to be.  Just like Christianity and Buddhism and every other religion, it changes over time.  
And it varies from location to location as well as well as sect to sect and person to person.
There is no "true" Islam.  There is only whatever the modern interpretation is, wherever you happen to be looking at that point in time.

This would be true if God didn't provide a representative that would the official representative and the one who humans have to return to, to return to the chosen word of guidance of God remaining in the line and offspring of Abraham, who was the official representative of the creed in his time.

This one reason among many why the religion cannot really exist in true form without a leader and guide from God!

Even if Atlas say had the right interpretation of Islam, he has no proof from God, and no one is required to pay attention to him or me or anyone without proof from God that their view of Islam is the correct interpretation of God's religion.