Damned Deists

[vulcanlogician]

...not even a magic book to rub between them.

Maybe THAT'S why I sort of like deists.

Perhaps other reasons though: the Jains are awesome (though you entirely discredit the Jains because of a scant few, very rare expressions of violence on their part).

I guess the other thing I like about them is that their claims tend not to condemn two thirds of humanity. Deists' claims tend to be far more humble and realistic. And deists tend to be much more willing to subject their claims to scrutiny. 

Alan Watt's thinking resembles deism at some points. What about Christianity as interpreted through the lens of a deistic God? And Mahayana Buddhism too! Avalokitesvara not a real entity? Perhaps he/she is a pattern in the universe. 

All of these things are far better than even fringe ideas that theism puts forth. Plus deism not only makes fewer irrational claims, it also makes fewer immoral claims.

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Yo! How are deists "dumber" than theists? LOL! They are a million times more rational. And their claims are far more plausible than those of theists.

"Deists are dumb."-- sure. There are plenty of instances where I would agree that deists depart from realistic thinking. Assuming such thinking qualifies as "dumb," yes.. deists fit the bill there. They are "dumb" in that regard.

"Deists are dumber than theists."---- ??????? I don't see it. I just don't see it.

I was gonna not post in this thread out of some humor-related sense of honor concerning a joke I made in the OP. But I seriously disagree with you here, Kit.

How are deists dumber than theists?

PS: Tom Paine is fuckin' awesome!!!!

Speaks to my point.

[Foxaèr]

Speaks to my point.

And my point is that a belief in a higher power is just as silly as a belief in God.

[vulcanlogician]

Speaks to my point.

And my point is that a belief in a higher power is just as silly as a belief in God.

What about the Milky Way galaxy, and all its burning suns? Isn't that a kind of "higher" power? At least a sort of "greater" power in terms of anything an individual human can produce?

[Foxaèr]

What about the Milky Way galaxy, and all its burning suns? Isn't that a kind of "higher" power? At least a sort of "greater" power in terms of anything an individual human can produce?

It seems to me deists are assigning sentience to a higher power, as a god would have. Something as naturally explained as the Milky Way does not have sentience any more than does a rock.

[vulcanlogician]

I'm not assigning sentience. Merely power. Does any naturally occurring force like the milky way parallel the force of human will? Thus, deists seem to have a point in my conception. At the very least they seem to have a point theists don't have.

[Foxaèr]

I'm not assigning sentience. Merely power.  Does any naturally occurring force like the milky way parallel the force of human will? Thus, deists seem to have a point in my conception. At the very least they seem to have a point theists don't have.

The Milky Way certainly has no power over me or my way of life.  Either way you decide to cut it, higher or power is being assigned as something greater that has no genuine sway over anything.

[vulcanlogician]

The Milky Way certainly has no power over me or my way of life.  Either way you decide to cut it, higher or power is being assigned as something greater that has no genuine sway over anything.

Milky Way has ultimate power over you and your way of life. LOL.

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[Foxaèr]

Milky Way has ultimate power over you and your way of life. LOL.

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Incorrect.

[The Grand Nudger]

...not even a magic book to rub between them.

Maybe THAT'S why I sort of like deists.

Perhaps other reasons though: the Jains are awesome (though you entirely  discredit the Jains because of a scant few, very rare expressions of violence on their part).

Jainism isn't a deistic religion, but they do subscribe to a hilarious amount of supernatural claims and they do have magic books.  

It's not individual jains I discredit, btw, simply the claim (the one thing most people know about jainism) that their religion is one of the good nonviolent ones.  That's been true(ish) so long as they've been out of power..but it was emphatically not true when they were in power.  The christians aren't exactly getting any brownie points for having slowed down on the burnings and beheadings either. It is in this context that jainism is wholly unremarkable as a religion and has followed the same trends as any other. Jain extremism, contrary to the thoughts of many people who wish to hold the idea up as a counterpoint to the current majority religions, presented itself -exactly- the same way that christian or islamic extremism presents itself. Wrapped in piety, preemptively defending itself and the world™ through acts of individual and organizational aggression. The jain tradition, itself, was the first to attempt to whitewash it's own history with renunciation legends. Those legends are not capable of concealing the fact that it was central to the ideology of an expansive empire with, perhaps... the largest standing army in the world, at the time. OFC they wanted to play up peace once their borders were sufficiently wide, and later...when they found themselves the oppressed instead of the oppressor within those borders.

Political misfortune has tempered the tradition, just as is has with christianity here in the west. It remains to be seen whether or not the tradition and it's adherents, like most others, will lull back and forth between violence and peace (again) over the long view of history. The big religions of the past 2k years have been occupying alot of the space, and the relative and recent peacefulness of that religion may be an accident of history.

I fully appreciate that any given jain, or anyone who wants to provide a counterpoint, can say "they were clearly jainisming wrong" -but they obviously didn't think so at the time, and I think we've all heard that one too may times.

[Whateverist]

If a deist's God excretes a galaxy but knows not what becomes of his turds and cares even less, should we care?

I'm inclined to think mega/omni stuff is unlikely and irrelevant. What am I missing?