Political Correctness

[Bob Kelso]

Bob, I am getting your point...I'm suggesting that your point is completely inoperative, lol. You're extending undue deference and centering assholes in service of a fucking loon rightwing talking point from the 90's.

You're asking me (even if the example you're offering isn't actually a good one)..if some person was an asshole..did they deserve to be treated like an asshole.

Well...yeah.

Treating assholes like assholes? Sure, call em out. My line begins at actual bullying and calling for their suicide though.

Treating people like absolute pieces of shit for saying something they didn’t mean? Nope. Can’t get behind that.

There are a lot of dicks in the world, but honest mistakes and poor thoughtless phrasing happen too. I’m not willing to treat people like actual Nazi’s over something like that, and find myself leveled against people who do. This shit happens from time to time, and while it’s not a “plaster it across the front page” problem it’s still a problem. That’s all I’m trying to get across.

[The Grand Nudger]

Bob, I am getting your point...I'm suggesting that your point is completely inoperative, lol.  You're extending undue deference and centering assholes in service of a fucking loon rightwing talking point from the 90's.

You're asking me (even if the example you're offering isn't actually a good one)..if some person was an asshole..did they deserve to be treated like an asshole.

Well...yeah.

Treating assholes like assholes? Sure, call em out. My line begins at actual bullying and calling for their suicide though.

You reckon that's PC? I mean..I'd do it, if some asshole just couldn't stop assholing I'd suggest a Final Solution to his assholishness....but that's not pc, lol.

Treating people like absolute pieces of shit for saying something they didn’t mean? Nope. Can’t get behind that.

There are a lot of dicks in the world, but honest mistakes and poor thoughtless phrasing happen too. I’m not willing to treat people like actual Nazi’s over something like that, and find myself leveled against people who do. This shit happens from time to time, and while it’s not a “plaster it across the front page” problem it’s still a problem. That’s all I’m trying to get across.

From time to time, eh? How about the problem(s) PC aligns itself against? How often..if you had to guess..in the span of 60 seconds?

[Rev. Rye]

Political Correctness is, in and of itself, a good idea. Unfortunately, it has the major flaw of hinging on expecting people being courteous to everyone, and I honestly think the boat on that idea being viable sailed long ago, likely when we stopped working on the assumption that there were about 150 people in the world and we knew them all by name.

Peer pressure is needed. It could be as simple as "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything."  When I went to Boot Camp 1/2 my company was from farm country, the other half from Harlem. We learned to respect each other in that nine weeks.

Unfortunately, in larger groups, that peer pressure (usually as provided by society) tends to look for excuses to lash out at others. And pressure to love is a hell of a lot harder to instill in people than pressure to hate. Case in point: two millennia ago, an itinerant preacher in an obscure corner of the Roman Empire started preaching a message of love, loving your neighbour as yourself and even your enemies. What happened to him? He was executed, specifically in a manner so excruciating the word "excruciating" came into being as a direct analogy for incredibly agonizing experiences. The moment his followers started to gain ground, they were persecuted for 250 years, until the Emperor decided he could use it as an excuse to vanquish his enemies. It grew into the biggest religion on Earth, but people still don't love their neighbours, especially not the followers of this religion built on lovong one's neighbour and even enemies.





You said you were in boot camp, which presumably means the military. Maybe they were getting you to create or modify an in-group (the US military) and an out-group (the enemy).

[The Grand Nudger]

Would it be so horrible if everyone in the us saw each other as the ingroup? Instead of seeing enemies in the blacks, the messicans, etc. I'm not sure that myths about a magic man and his later followers can demonstrate any point you have. No ones forcing anyone to love anyone..just making being a dick consequential.

Specifically, in a society where being The Right Kind™ of dick has been not only acceptable, but laudible.

[Bob Kelso]

Yeah, I “reckon” so when people do it in the same breath as saying “don’t do ‘thing’ it’s insensitive”. Dunno what you’d call it.

If you wanna be flippant about it that’s fine, no need to continue.

---

Would it be so horrible if everyone in the us saw each other as the ingroup? Instead of seeing enemies in the blacks, the messicans, etc.

No, I don’t think anyone’s suggesting otherwise.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, I “reckon” so when people do it in the same breath as saying “don’t do ‘thing’ it’s insensitive”. Dunno what you’d call it.

If you wanna be flippant about it that’s fine, no need to continue.

Explain to me how it's pc.  You're trying to express that some people are bad pc leftists, and sometimes hypocritical..or just downright mean.  No shit.  How is that supposed to be a comment on the ideology?  Tell me more about flippancy, lol.

---

No, I don’t think anyone’s suggesting otherwise.

That's one of the things I find so amusing about the anti pc crowd...at least the leftist and "centrist" branches.  They don't actually disagree.....but boy do they have endless anxious grievances about being "accidentally" identified as an asshole. The right anti pc has anxious grievances too...but they also wear their asshole shit on their sleeves, so there's that.

[Rev. Rye]

Would it be so horrible if everyone in the us saw each other as the ingroup? Instead of seeing enemies in the blacks, the messicans, etc. I'm not sure that myths about a magic man and his later followers can demonstrate any point you have. No ones forcing anyone to love anyone..just making being a dick consequential.

Not horrible, but unrealistic. If I could jump off the roof of the Sears Tower and expect anything other than being a big mess of blood and squashed entrails on South Wacker Drive, that would be awesome, but that doesn't mean I think that's likely. Why do I think everyone seeing each other as an ingroup as being in the same category? Because if it was actually possible on a societal level, you'd think we'd actually have seen it (or something approaching it) at some point.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why is it unrealistic?  If an entire nation of people can be compellingly sold on white supremacy..for example...or nationalism?  

Aren't we all we...in the first place?

We do see the production and assumption of these sets...all the time. The fact that the boundary setters have been assholes doesn't take away from the fact that they've been routinely successful. Think about all these "whites"...today.

They fuckin -hated- each other, in living memory - most of them weren't even white...according to the other "whites". Same with the "christians".

-and again, we've entirely left the boundaries of pc anyway.

[Rev. Rye]

Why is it unrealistic?  If an entire nation of people can be compellingly sold on white supremacy..for example...or nationalism?  

Aren't we all we...in the first place?

We do see the production and assumption of these sets...all the time.

Hate is a hell of a lot easier a sell than love. It always has been.

[Brian37]

It's interesting to see this become such a big political topic again. This is a rather broad topic but in general are your more in favor or against political correctness?

Having just today being called "prejudice" by a white western female Buddhist, it reminds me, BEING LIBERAL myself, why Ayaan Hirsi Ali being a former Muslim got shit for blaspheming her former religion.

I am a liberal. I am not out to end religion, certainly not by use of government force. If my blasphemy or criticism can get you to reconsider, that is different, like the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink".

But even Ayaan rightfully said, having escaped her oppressive past, "Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice."

So you cant oversimplify life.

I am for beating the shit out of bad claims as far as logic is concerned. I am also for blasphemy of oppression and dictators and theocracy. But no, I do not think all humor is meant to oppress. If I say, "I am thinking about starting an atheist restaurant, nothing will be on the menu", does that make me an oppressive bigot or self loathing because I am an atheist? Or does it merely mean I have a sense of humor?

But no, nobody should be condemned for saying "that is not true" or even "bullshit" in regards to the claims of others.

At the same time, no we should not tolerate politicians whom sit in a seat of power and scapegoat and vilify entire groups of "outsiders". 

I don't like the term "PC". If we want to look at the extremes of a "Politically correct" society, try dissenting openly in North Korea against their powers. Try saying Allah is not real in Iran or Saudi Arabia in public. 

But no, calling the KKK and Nazis asshole dicks and should not have political power is not "political correctness" it is sanity.