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Current time: July 4, 2022, 9:16 am

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Hanging out at a friends house last night.
#21
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Fair, " You can pray even at my house, just don't ask me to hold your hand or bow my head" 

Unfair, " You cant pray at your house or my house at all ever in front of me." Which is not what I am arguing. 

If I had objected to anyone doing it at all, that would be unfair. Now again, I just PMed him while making this thread, if he was understanding about it, as a host, then it should be easy for everyone here also. 

It is no different than when someone keeps repeating "I'll pray for you." First time I thank them, but politely say to them, "I get your intent, but you can offer me your  concern in other ways than that in the future".

Nobody last night objected to my sitting it out. I merely pointed out that it was annoying being offered at all because they already knew. My host, my friend, understood, and said so in his PM just now. And again, if it had been at my house, I would have let them pray, but still done the same thing, sat it out.
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#22
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Also fair:
Them: "Please bow your heads while we pray."
You: Doesn't bow head. Doesn't pray. Doesn't say anything because it's clearly a tradition that's important to them, which you aren't required to participate in.

I mean it would be more awkward if they just started praying and didn't even give you the heads up.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

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#23
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
I take it that it’s the post-prayer hissy fit that’s satisfying.

You must be a lot of fun to have around IRL Brian.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#24
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 12:30 pm)anjele Wrote: I take it that it’s the post-prayer hissy fit that’s satisfying.

You must be a lot of fun to have around IRL Brian.

Venting is not having a "hissy fit", there is a very real double standard, holidays are one, but funerals are even worse for atheists.

Now again, I was simply annoyed that they had known for years that I was an atheist. I pulled him aside last night after and said and again thanked him in PM while making this thread, just now, HE understood. 

Jews don't eat pork, so I know you are Jewish and I invite you over, I am going to be a good host, and not even offer it to you, even if I eat it in front of you.

They prayed in front of me, they still did that. I didn't stop them, I simply got annoyed. Even outside this subject, are you going to tell me you never get annoyed with family or friends? Do they disown you every time you express a concern? 

If my friend wants to come over for Christmas, he wont see a tree no, but if we have a meal together, he can pray, I won't stop him. I simply wont bow my head or hold hands. Now, if he can understand that why cant you, and mind you, he is the theist.
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#25
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
FFS.

It was a few seconds among friends. Why the need to vent in the first place?
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#26
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
What do you have against trees at Christmas? They are not a Christian thing. You know that, right?

And I do understand...you are butthurt.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#27
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Yeah this is a classic case of butthurt.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#28
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
I went to a formal military dinner a few weeks ago (I was invited since I've done some consultation work with them in the past).

The dinner begins with a prayer (and to give the chaplain credit, he even mentioned the non beluevers in the room). A lot of people bowed their heads. A lot of people didn't.

I think it's a courtesy to stay silentcwhile others pray, but I don't bow my head or say "amen".
Dying to live, living to die.
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#29
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
Annoyance should, at best, be a passing thing. Not a hobby or an all-encompassing crusade. YMMV. Coffee
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#30
RE: Hanging out at a friends house last night.
(November 22, 2018 at 12:48 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: FFS.

It was a few seconds among friends. Why the need to vent in the first place?

Not the point. 

It really is a long term issue in our species. Not talking about something that bothers you can long term, allow those who never hear your concerns to assume. Not expressing your concerns, even in dating and relationships, can create needless animosity. This was just a annoying to me. Much like when my late mother would suddenly shout at me for missing a turn when I was driving her somewhere. Even with people you like and love, it is possible to be annoyed at their actions and still like and love them. 

Letting someone know up front where you stand allows both of you to make that choice. Now again, if he can understand that, then it should not be that hard for anyone here to understand that.

Even if he had said, "Ok Brian, next time we won't invite you" I also would not have objected to that. Because it would not be a "f-you" on his part but merely "that is not Brian's thing". We still do other things together outside of holidays and we have since I have known him.

If you are swearing in a judge to their office, it will be their bench, but just like you don't force them to swear on a Koran, or Torah, or Talmud or Origin Of The Species, it is still their court sure, and they do get to decide what they put their hands on when taking the oath, but those who go in front of them are not obligated to swear in on that same book. It was his house, his court, but he was also a good host in understanding. I don't expect him or his wife to do that again. But he also expects if he comes over to my house I won't throw a fit if they pray. I simply wont partake in it. 



Yes it was "a few seconds among friends" and we still are, and he was understanding to my objections. The explanation was also brief and among friends and the prayer still happened.
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