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Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
#31
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 5:47 am)Cherub786 Wrote:
AtlasS33 Wrote:pass through Hell

Hey if you want to go to Hell be my guest. But I'm a Believer so I get to go to the other place (48:5)

Xenophobic? Dude I think you need to complete those ESL classes, xenophobia isn't the word.

Nobody is holy not even Prophets? ًWell our Book says otherwise (4:69; 19:58)

Maybe you should stick to poetry

But the Quran is saying so:


Quote:Sura 19, The Quran:
https://quran.com/19/67?translations=20

Abdul Haleem

(67) but does man not remember that We created him when he was nothing before?

(68) By your Lord [Prophet] We shall gather them and the devils together and set them on their knees around Hell;

(69) We shall seize out of each group those who were most disobedient towards the Lord of Mercy-

(70) We know best who most deserves to burn in Hell-

(71) but every single one of you will approach it, a decree from your Lord which must be fulfilled.

(72) Then we shall save the devout and leave the evildoers there on their knees.

Are you sure that you will be among the devout? you will approach hell, just like verse 71 of Sura 19 says. I mean it's a decree from God.
Saying that you will fair against that day is very strange. Do you think you are God?  how do you know that you won't be picked to burn in hell? nobody will know until that day comes.
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#32
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 8:54 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
Quote:Sura 19, The Quran:
https://quran.com/19/67?translations=20

Abdul Haleem

(67) but does man not remember that We created him when he was nothing before?

(68) By your Lord [Prophet] We shall gather them and the devils together and set them on their knees around Hell;

(69) We shall seize out of each group those who were most disobedient towards the Lord of Mercy-

(70) We know best who most deserves to burn in Hell-

(71) but every single one of you will approach it, a decree from your Lord which must be fulfilled.

(72) Then we shall save the devout and leave the evildoers there on their knees.

Are you sure that you will be among the devout? you will approach hell, just like verse 71 of Sura 19 says. I mean it's a decree from God.
Saying that you will fair against that day is very strange. Do you think you are God?  how do you know that you won't be picked to burn in hell? nobody will know until that day comes.

Are you sure you're an Arab?

Let's look at 19:71:

وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا
The accurate translation is not "every single one of you will approach it" but "None from among you except will come to it"
Minkum, with the suffix "kum" that is second person plural. And "min" is the preposition among.
So those in the category being addressed will all come to it, and all of humanity is not being addressed in the Verse as the context of the passage makes clear.

Furthermore, coming to it or approaching it does not mean entering it. The verb وَرَدَ warada means "he came" as opposed to دَخَلَ dakhala which means "he entered".
The verse is classically understood to be referring to the Siraat bridge which everyone will cross, but only those that are Believers saved by the Royalty will be saved and cross it successfully while the unbelievers will not be able to cross.
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#33
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
[Image: catfight11.jpg]
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#34
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 9:20 am)Cherub786 Wrote:
(December 5, 2018 at 8:54 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Are you sure that you will be among the devout? you will approach hell, just like verse 71 of Sura 19 says. I mean it's a decree from God.
Saying that you will fair against that day is very strange. Do you think you are God?  how do you know that you won't be picked to burn in hell? nobody will know until that day comes.

Are you sure you're an Arab?

Let's look at 19:71:

وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا
The accurate translation is not "every single one of you will approach it" but "None from among you except will come to it"
Minkum, with the suffix "kum" that is second person plural. And "min" is the preposition among.
So those in the category being addressed will all come to it, and all of humanity is not being addressed in the Verse as the context of the passage makes clear.

Furthermore, coming to it or approaching it does not mean entering it. The verb وَرَدَ warada means "he came" as opposed to دَخَلَ dakhala which means "he entered".
The verse is classically understood to be referring to the Siraat bridge which everyone will cross, but only those that are Believers saved by the Royalty will be saved and cross it successfully while the unbelievers will not be able to cross.

I don't remember I have mentioned to you that I'm an Arab.

The translation I posted is the literal, most accurate translation to English; I post below more translations by different scholars:




(December 5, 2018 at 9:36 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: [Image: catfight11.jpg]

It's not me who treats religion as a personal possession.
Observe and you might realize the reasons why many Muslims are so humiliated and ruled by dictators. That bite in your meme is a bonesaw in reality, or a Chemical missile strike against children.

It has nothing to do with the Quran. But everything to do with personal motives.
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#35
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 9:52 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(December 5, 2018 at 9:20 am)Cherub786 Wrote: Are you sure you're an Arab?

Let's look at 19:71:

وَإِن مِّنكُمْ إِلَّا وَارِدُهَا
The accurate translation is not "every single one of you will approach it" but "None from among you except will come to it"
Minkum, with the suffix "kum" that is second person plural. And "min" is the preposition among.
So those in the category being addressed will all come to it, and all of humanity is not being addressed in the Verse as the context of the passage makes clear.

Furthermore, coming to it or approaching it does not mean entering it. The verb وَرَدَ warada means "he came" as opposed to دَخَلَ dakhala which means "he entered".
The verse is classically understood to be referring to the Siraat bridge which everyone will cross, but only those that are Believers saved by the Royalty will be saved and cross it successfully while the unbelievers will not be able to cross.

I don't remember I have mentioned to you that I'm an Arab.

The translation I posted is the literal, most accurate translation to English; I post below more translations by different scholars:

[hide]

Dr. Ghali
And decidedly not one of you (there is), except that he will go (herded) down to it; that, for your Lord, has been a thing decreed, a must.

Muhsin Khan
There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.

Pickthall
There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord.

Sahih International
And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.

Yusuf Ali
Not one of you but will pass over it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished.

Mufti Taqi Usmani
There is none among you who does not have to arrive at it. This is undertaken by your Lord as an absolute decree, bound to be enforced.

Abdul Haleem
but every single one of you will approach it, a decree from your Lord which must be fulfilled.

Abul Ala Maududi(With tafsir)
(19:71) There is not one of you but shall pass by Hell.4 This is a decree which your Lord will fulfil.

Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
There is none of you who will not pass over it. ˹This is˺ a decree your Lord must fulfil.

Dr. Mustafa Khattab
There is none of you who will not pass over it.1 ˹This is˺ a decree your Lord must fulfil.

the issue is not any translation but the question of who exactly are being addressed in the word minkum "from among you".

In the commentary of Tabari is mentioned this:

وقال آخرون بل الورود هو الدخول، ولكنه عنى الكفـار دون الـمؤمنـين. ذكر من قال ذلك حدثنا ابن الـمثنى، قال ثنا أبو داود، قال ثنا شعبة، قال أخبرنـي عبد الله بن السائب، عن رجل سمع ابن عبـاس يقرؤها { وَإنْ مِنْكُمْ إلاَّ وَارِدُها } يعنـي الكفـار، قال لا يردها مؤمن
حدثنا مـحمد بن بشار، قال ثنا عبد الرحمن، قال ثنا عمرو بن الولـيد الشَّنِّـي، قال سمعت عكرمة يقول { وَإنْ مِنْكُمْ إلاَّ وَارِدُها } يعنـي الكفـار

So these are two reports, one from Ibn Abbas and one from Ikrama that the addressees, those being addressed, are only unbelievers not believers.
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#36
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 9:52 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(December 5, 2018 at 9:36 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: [Image: catfight11.jpg]

It's not me who treats religion as a personal possession.
Observe and you might realize the reasons why many Muslims are so humiliated and ruled by dictators. That bite in your meme is a bonesaw in reality, or a Chemical missile strike against children.

It has nothing to do with the Quran. But everything to do with personal motives.

Yeah, right. You just oppose anyone who doesn't agree with your personally held Quran-only views. Go on, Atlass. Pull the other one. It's got bells on it.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#37
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
Cherub786

Read my comment again; please.
I said:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-57604-p...pid1864452

Quote:Are you sure that you will be among the devout? you will approach hell, just like verse 71 of Sura 19 says. I mean it's a decree from God.

This is the question.
I'm waiting for your answer. Please focus, and don't let Jormungander's meme true. I'm not a lady though.

(December 5, 2018 at 10:25 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(December 5, 2018 at 9:52 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's not me who treats religion as a personal possession.
Observe and you might realize the reasons why many Muslims are so humiliated and ruled by dictators. That bite in your meme is a bonesaw in reality, or a Chemical missile strike against children.

It has nothing to do with the Quran. But everything to do with personal motives.

Yeah, right.  You just oppose anyone who doesn't agree with your personally held Quran-only views.  Go on, Atlass.  Pull the other one.  It's got bells on it.

Yes, right !
I must oppose what I don't see right, I say why I hold the certain view; offer my evidence why I think so too.
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#38
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
(December 5, 2018 at 10:39 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Cherub786

Read my comment again; please.
I said:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-57604-p...pid1864452

Quote:Are you sure that you will be among the devout? you will approach hell, just like verse 71 of Sura 19 says. I mean it's a decree from God.

This is the question.
I'm waiting for your answer. Please focus, and don't let Jormungander's meme true. I'm not a lady though.

Yes, the phrase used is الَّذِينَ اتَّقَوا so anyone who is afraid of our God falls in that category. I certainly do.
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#39
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
I love how the issue of whether or not a person is devout hinges on whether or not that person is a coward.

We've got a guy here trying to establish that he's going to go to the drunken sex park in the sky because he's a super yoooge pants-shitter.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#40
RE: Kathleen Madigan on Afghanistan
Fear is not cowardice. Cowardice is lack of bravery. Fleeing from an uncaged lion isn't cowardice. As Mufasa said "being brave doesn't mean you go looking for trouble"
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