Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: October 19, 2019, 4:58 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
#1
Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
On December 3, 1990 my 6lb 8oz self was born into a Fundamental Independent Evangelical Baptist family. For those that had to re-read that and still have no clue what the fuck they just read, first Google the Duggers, then Westboro Baptist Church, and then smush those together. Very narrow-minded, all-or-nothing, bigoted, and fear-driven people.

God was our source of everything: peace, strength, comfort. We were nothing without god, and it was a religion of victimization and co-dependence. Without god, we were broken, useless, condemned, and weak. After my parents divorced, my mother dated women. When she was open about her sexuality, the church would shun her, and our family would stop talking to her. Once she repented and came back to god, everyone welcomed her back with open arms as if nothing ever happened. Even at the ages of 7 and 8, I saw this as being very harmful, toxic, hypocritical, and otherwise ridden with bullshit. Imagine that abusive cycle in a relationship... oh, wait.. that IS what Christianity is. Never mind.

In church, I was taught/told/commanded to never question, just accept and have faith. Questioning meant there was doubt, and god didn't approve of doubt. So trust his will, trust his plan, and make good choices and trust his will... wait... what?

I prayed the sinner's prayer several times. Each time, I had no faith. I went through the motions, faking it until i felt it, pretending to believe "just in case" and wondering why it didn't feel like I truly believed. Was I doing it wrong? Was I not trying hard enough?

When I was 19, I attended my last service in that church. I was relieved. Over the years, I have attended other churches, even churches of opposing religions. I've attended churches where pastors walked in pride parades, churches where pastors didn't preach fear and brimstone. But that belief eluded me... no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't believe.

Three years ago, I gave god one last try. I set my anger and questions at the altar, and laid a fresh slate before me. I bought a brand new Bible, downloaded devotional apps, looked up bible study groups, prayed before every meal and upon waking up and going to sleep, thanked god for everything, asked very little of him, bought Christian-based books, cut out music that wasn't Christian music, stopped cussing, and basically deep-throated the holy spirit like a cum-thirsty porn star. The belief wasn't there, but surely now that I was putting in the effort and doing everything right, it would come!

On February 21, 2016 I came home to a scene that made my reality crumble around me and on top of me. Two friends, both EMT/Firefighters, lay dead in pools of vomit and blood. My beloved friends had died after one shot the other several times, killing them, and then turned the gun on themself. When I called my grandmother to let her know what happened, and that I wouldn't be answering phone calls, my eyes were opened. She offered to pray, which to be fair, was fine. She had asked if there was anything she could do. "Can you bring them back?" She couldn't. "Can you make it possible for me to breathe love into bullet wounds so that I can bring them back?" She fought back tears, "No, sweetheart.. I'm so sorry." So she prayed. I wasn't eating, and no one cooking for me or flying out here could help. She did the only thing she knew to do, and I will never hold that part against her.

It is what came after that opened my eyes. Her reasons for this tragedy: god allowed this (me to find them/this happening at all, I don't know) because:

1. he was trying to get my attention because of things I won't get into here (I'm a demonic baby eater, don't ya know?)
2. he was testing my faith
3. he was punishing me (BBQed babies, man)

Those were fine with me. I hated myself, thank you depression and other bullshit. It was the fourth thing that set me off.

"Had they been saved, god would have maybe intervened. You need to pick better friends."

Then, in the next breath, "He has a plan, things happen for a reason. We have free will, and your friend made a horrible choice. Trust god's plan."

I was done. Absolutely fucking done.

This anger gave me courage to open my eyes. I went to a few more churches, but with a new goal: to see the idea of god with an objective mind.

Last August, I lost another friend to suicide. He was also a Paramedic/Firefighter. If I could have a brother, i would have wanted it to be him. Ray was the reason I got help for my own PTSD. He grieved our friends with me, encouraged me, motivated me to live life with more adventure and purpose. Then, a couple of weeks ago, my friend's 9-year-old son died from water intoxication. His organs were donated to at least 4 other kids, and he is now a superhero amongst the cosmos.

When Ray died, i got the same bullshit. God has a plan, blah blah blah fuck you blah. Pick better friends, blah blah bullshit blah. I was already gazing at the door of atheism. I was out of my seat, in the aisle, too afraid to move.

When Killian, my friend's son, died, my friend asked for thoughts. When people tried pushing god down her throat, I came to her defense. By this time, I was almost at the door.

Over the last few years, off and on, I have watched videos, read articles, talked to others, researched, thought on my own time... and wrestled with fear like my life depended on it. Because, for me, it was life or death.

I am at the door. My hand is on the doorknob. The door is opening, and I can see the light of reason and peace.

But what if hell is real? Fire and brimstone and eternal torment sound awful. But even if hell were different... my thought of hell was that it was a place that was farthest from love and peace. Well, shit. That's my life with depression. I am slowly grappling with this fear, and now...

I have one foot in the doorway. I am feeling peace.

But without hell, there is no heaven.

I never thought of heaven as a refuge for myself. That promise of peace never appealed to me. The only reprieve I had from life was the death that would come once I had the courage to pull that trigger and end my life. I didn't give much of a fuck after that, I just didn't want to hurt anymore. But the idea of being able to hug my Granny again and hear her laugh and feel her feather-soft hair against my cheek... the idea of being able to sit with my great-grandpa while he played his harmonica and sang.. those hopes would be gone. But that wasn't the hardest part.

I lost two friends to suicide, and one to homicide. No heaven means that my friends never found peace. That means that their lives ended in moments of torment and pain, and that there was no peace after. In the moments where I would sit and think about what I could have said to save them... in those moments when I was heartbroken and wanted to just breathe love into their bullet wounds and bring them back... it was eased with the hope that they were in heaven, a peace. When the image of my first two friends lying there would sear into my brain, I would imagine them in heaven, at peace.

I'm standing in the doorway. Belief is behind me. But my heart is breaking, and once i close this door behind me, it is closed.

I reject the idea of god. I reject the bible and its contradicitons and fairytales. I reject the idea of satan. I know where I stand, and holy fuck at the "spiritual" peace I have finally found.

Agnostic atheist... it resonates. It is my truth, my belief. I see truth in fact, in science, in proven things.

I've walked through the door. I'm not even turning back, my hand wants to close it. I feel peace.

How do I close this door? How do I silence that voice that tells me that satan has me in his cluthces? How can something you don't believe in harm you? It can't. Bible verses and threats of hell don't phase me. But that little voice.. it needs to fuck off.

Wherever my friends are, whatever happens after death, I can only hope that there is peace.

I came from a place of fear, and now, I am in a place of peace. This, to me, is the meaning of life.





Reply
#2
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
Heart
Honey!!!!!
First if all... I love you to pieces and I’m here for you. I went through it alone and AF was what helped me cope, and heal. I hope it does the same for you.

Second... guys... this is my friend! I know this dude in real life and he’s amazing! I hope you all end up loving the hell out of him (no pun intended) as I do.

Welcome!!! Like I said at poetry night, welcome to the family. Heart
"Hipster is what happens when young hot people do what old ladies do." -Exian
Reply
#3
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
(January 21, 2019 at 12:24 am)J a c k Wrote: Heart
Honey!!!!!
First if all... I love you to pieces and I’m here for you. I went through it alone and AF was what helped me cope, and heal. I hope it does the same for you.

Second... guys... this is my friend! I know this dude in real life and he’s amazing! I hope you all end up loving the hell out of him (no pun intended) as I do.

Welcome!!! Like I said at poetry night, welcome to the family.  Heart

This is so cool! ❤️ 

Welcome, OP!  Any friend of Ivy’s is a friend of mine! Baby BBQ’s are Tuesdays and Thursdays. 😉
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply
#4
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
(January 21, 2019 at 12:24 am)J a c k Wrote: Heart
Honey!!!!!
First if all... I love you to pieces and I’m here for you. I went through it alone and AF was what helped me cope, and heal. I hope it does the same for you.

Second... guys... this is my friend! I know this dude in real life and he’s amazing! I hope you all end up loving the hell out of him (no pun intended) as I do.

Welcome!!! Like I said at poetry night, welcome to the family.  Heart

Heart  Thank you for making me feel like a welcomed person in your life from the start, and for bringing me here. I'm used to the alone thing, but this is the second hardest thing I have been through. I don't think anything will ever top losing Anisha and Sean. It comes close, though. It's a relief to know that I am not alone, and that others have been here. There's still healing that needs to take place. There are still habits to break and little voices to silence. But at least now, I am outside of the grips of fairy tales and made-up villians and heroes. I look forward to meeting everyone Smile

(January 21, 2019 at 12:30 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(January 21, 2019 at 12:24 am)J a c k Wrote: Heart
Honey!!!!!
First if all... I love you to pieces and I’m here for you. I went through it alone and AF was what helped me cope, and heal. I hope it does the same for you.

Second... guys... this is my friend! I know this dude in real life and he’s amazing! I hope you all end up loving the hell out of him (no pun intended) as I do.

Welcome!!! Like I said at poetry night, welcome to the family.  Heart

This is so cool! ❤️ 

Welcome, OP!  Any friend of Ivy’s is a friend of mine! Baby BBQ’s are Tuesdays and Thursdays. 😉

haha thank you, and I'll bring some sweet tea and my homemade BBQ sauce xD
Reply
#5
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
Also... he has sworn to never speak of what happens in here out there in the real world. Lol I say too much in here haha Angel
"Hipster is what happens when young hot people do what old ladies do." -Exian
Reply
#6
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
Holy shit. What an intro thread. Clap

Welcome. Jack is my friend and now so are you. I truly hope you can close the door.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
Reply
#7
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
Hug
Reply
#8
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
I am so sorry you have been through these things. That's nearly as worthless as thought and prayers, I know but it's about all I have. You certainly aren't to blame for what has happened and there is no god with a plan. What there is - is people who make decisions that effect themselves and those around them by their actions.


My younger daughter's best friend from middle school was murdered by her husband when she was 28 years old. He then called his mother to come pick up their three year old who was watching TV and eating cereal and he turned the gun on himself. What kind of plan could there have been by a god? These acts left five - count them - five children without one or both parents as they were a blended family. My daughter and granddaughter were living with them at the time...my daughter has never recovered from the events of that day. There are days I ache from the loss of both Tori and the damage done to my daughter and Tor's kids and stepkids.

Just a few months ago the middle son of my older daughter's best friend shot himself. He was a firefighter. His family is shredded.


Losses like that are jarring. They are difficult to recover from. God has a plan is such an empty comment. It means nothing.


Satan has nothing to do with any of this but the way you are feeling is called grief and it is not an easy thing to move past. Stop thinking Satan has anything to do with what's going on in your head and your heart. If you can, find a secular counselor to help you work through the steps of grief but realize that there will be times when the grief (not Satan) grabs you...often blindsiding you. You mention depression...there is help for that too...with counseling and/or medication. These are tough things to work through and live around and there's no shame in seeking help.

December 20th of every year sneaks up on me and lays me low...my first husband died at age 24 in a car accident...that was in 1984. I was already away from the church but thought I needed to try again and that would help. So I found a church and looked up the times of services (I was in a new city and state). I dressed up, drove to the church, and found a seat and the service started...in Spanish...which I don't speak or understand. I took it as a sign from the universe that as before there was no god talking to me.


I am sure there are many people here who are willing to lend support. Again, I am sorry you dealing with loss and pain on many levels.

Popcorn

Reply
#9
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
(January 21, 2019 at 1:00 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Holy shit. What an intro thread. Clap

Welcome. Jack is my friend and now so are you. I truly hope you can close the door.

heh thank you. Honestly, as frustrating as it is, I have to remember to be thankful that I got this far. This has been terrifying. When the price for questioning even something as simple as "Did jesus feel pain when he was nailed to the cross?" can get you a stern look, questioning the existence of god is the ultimate "sin." So for now, I will stand here, catch my breath, enjoy the fact that I learned to think for myself, and breathe in the peace that is outside of that shit hole of religion. I'm glad to meet another friend along the way Smile

(January 21, 2019 at 2:13 am)arewethereyet Wrote: I am so sorry you have been through these things.  That's nearly as worthless as thought and prayers, I know but it's about all I have.  You certainly aren't to blame for what has happened and there is no god with a plan.  What there is - is people who make decisions that effect themselves and those around them by their actions.


My younger daughter's best friend from middle school was murdered by her husband when she was 28 years old.  He then called his mother to come pick up their three year old who was watching TV and eating cereal and he turned the gun on himself.  What kind of plan could there have been by a god?  These acts left five - count them - five children without one or both parents as they were a blended family.  My daughter and granddaughter were living with them at the time...my daughter has never recovered from the events of that day.  There are days I ache from the loss of both Tori and the damage done to my daughter and Tor's kids and stepkids.  

Just a few months ago the middle son of my older daughter's best friend shot himself.  He was a firefighter.  His family is shredded.


Losses like that are jarring.  They are difficult to recover from.  God has a plan is such an empty comment.  It means nothing.


Satan has nothing to do with any of this but the way you are feeling is called grief and it is not an easy thing to move past.  Stop thinking Satan has anything to do with what's going on in your head and your heart.  If you can, find a secular counselor to help you work through the steps of grief but realize that there will be times when the grief (not Satan) grabs you...often blindsiding you.  You mention depression...there is help for that too...with counseling and/or medication.  These are tough things to work through and live around and there's no shame in seeking help.

December 20th of every year sneaks up on me and lays me low...my first husband died at age 24 in a car accident...that was in 1984.  I was already away from the church but thought I needed to try again and that would help.  So I found a church and looked up the times of services (I was in a new city and state).  I dressed up, drove to the church, and found a seat and the service started...in Spanish...which I don't speak or understand.  I took it as a sign from the universe that as before there was no god talking to me.  


I am sure there are many people here who are willing to lend support.  Again, I am sorry you dealing with loss and pain on many levels.

Thank you. Words of any kind of encouragement and understanding are welcome, and I will add that I appreciate that you didn't judge the friend who shot her boyfriend before ending her own life. Again, what she did was so fucking wrong that it makes me sick, but that doesn't nullify who she was as a whole, and I am truly thankful that you weren't "one of those." I am also sorry for your losses... suicide never truly has a manual to prevent it, and it will never be understood. Even if there is a note left behind (I wish Anisha and Ray had left notes), it doens't answer everything. First responders in particular are where I want to focus my mental health career. I could go on and on about that, but we'd be here for an eternity.

As for guilt, that shit consumed me for the first 2 years. It got to the point that, when I did believe in the idea of god, I was convinced that if I took my own life, he would bring my friends back. I landed in a psych ward for 3 weeks. I no longer carry guilt, and never once did I believe that the devil was behind this. Unfortunately Anisha walked through her darkness alone, and she took Sean with her. My buddy, Ray, unfortunately walked through his darkness alone, too. They made choices. Anisha chose to pull that trigger, she chose to kill Sean. Sean chose to still come over even when he knew something was going on with her; he thought he could save her. Ray chose to walk out of that bar, away from people who love him, sit in his car, and shoot himself. Humans have free will, freedom of choice.

I chose for most of my life to fake my way to god. Then, I finally fit the pieces together.. the holes in the bible, the scientific facts that contradicted the things I was taught, the conflict of free will and some sky daddy's divine plan... It was only then that things began to make sense, and only then that i began to feel peace.

The default for the unknown shoudn't be a magical "sky daddy" with some mysterious divine plan. The comfort for loss shouldn't be that bullshit narrative. That almost invalidates the grief.

I wanted to clear something up..

My realization that I don't accept the idea of god didn't come solely based on all the bad shit that has happened to me. It came from the holes in the bible, the scientific facts that contradicted what I was taught, the conflict between free will and some bullshit divine plan. The losses definitely helped procure the anger, but the doubt and lack of belief was always there. I just have a hard time wording certain things through writing, and I really didn't want to get too much into my life, because explaining other things would mean explaining even more personal stuff about myself that I'm really not comfortable doing yet. Nothing bad- just the BBQed babies :p
Reply
#10
RE: Fundamental Independent Evangelical Bullshit, Suicide, and the Awakening of Truth
Any friend of JACK is my friend. Welcome
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  My awakening ManMadeGod 10 1178 December 13, 2015 at 7:10 am
Last Post: Gambit
  Another man looking for truth Dayron 41 4197 August 18, 2015 at 8:05 pm
Last Post: Iroscato
  The Voice of Truth and Reason PiousPaladin 52 6906 June 27, 2015 at 12:11 pm
Last Post: Humanoid Escapee
  Christian here to show the truth... (Again) Drich 48 6729 July 31, 2014 at 8:48 am
Last Post: Dystopia
  A Christian here to show the truth beentheredonethat 42 7608 July 15, 2014 at 9:22 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  New to the truth CleverCalvert 32 4285 March 14, 2014 at 5:05 pm
Last Post: Jörmungandr
  Hello Truth Seekers omjag86 67 19624 August 16, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Last Post: padraic



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)