Posts: 2080
Threads: 63
Joined: June 3, 2018
Reputation:
17
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 9:48 am
(March 17, 2019 at 1:49 am)Amarok Wrote: Quote:Certainly a lot cheaper to kill murderers and child rapers rather than keep them locked up for 50 years. Pretty sure the purely pragmatic, economical argument cannot be refuted.
Actually it isn't cheaper not just for 50 years but for the rest of their lives .
(March 16, 2019 at 10:57 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I'm not necessarily concerned with the economic pragmatism of the death penalty, I simply think some criminals deserve death.
And the reason is ?
What do you mean?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
Posts: 66326
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2019 at 10:43 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 17, 2019 at 9:15 am)Editz Wrote: I guess my answer would be that there's a big difference between being a fanatical tory/republican etc advocate, campaigner and financial supporter and gunning down 50 civilians.
Sure, one of them has the stones to pull a trigger themselves.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 10:46 am
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2019 at 10:48 am by Brian37.)
(March 17, 2019 at 9:48 am)EgoDeath Wrote: (March 17, 2019 at 1:49 am)Amarok Wrote: Actually it isn't cheaper not just for 50 years but for the rest of their lives .
And the reason is ?
What do you mean?
You should be. Just because one can point out drastic cases like spree killers and serial killers, still does not change the cost to tax payers long term.
The cost of appeals is far higher in death penalty cases than merely giving them life in prison with no parole.
And the other problem with it, as with even other crime, is that someone who doesn't have deep pockets to defend themselves, are far more likely to be hurt by the justice system, than a wealthy person accused of the same if innocent. Once you end their life, you can't bring it back if it is later found out they are innocent. Many people have been let off death row too because evidence proved they didn't do it.
The death penalty is not a deterrent, and really is nothing more than state sponsored revenge.
You do not protect the accused because you like what they are charged with, you protect the accused for the greater long term attitude that we should not become a mob rule society.
In a perfect world you'd be right that someone should forfeit their life for mass murder or serial killers. But in the real world innocent people get accused, and those without money to defend themselves are far more likely to be over charged, and or plead out even if innocent, or get wrongfully convicted.
And since I am a tax payer too, please don't speak for me. The death penalty just on cost alone, is enough for me. Killers can still be put in super max prisons and contained without the extra cost.
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 12:03 pm
Death toll went up to 50.
Posts: 44026
Threads: 529
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 12:53 pm
(March 17, 2019 at 12:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Death toll went up to 50.
Nice to know you're keeping score. How is this helpful?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 1630
Threads: 95
Joined: October 22, 2018
Reputation:
7
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2019 at 1:08 pm by Duty.)
(March 17, 2019 at 10:43 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: (March 17, 2019 at 9:15 am)Editz Wrote: I guess my answer would be that there's a big difference between being a fanatical tory/republican etc advocate, campaigner and financial supporter and gunning down 50 civilians.
Sure, one of them has the stones to pull a trigger themselves.
My initial reaction to that comment was "wow, you've got issues bro" but on further consideration I realise " fanatical Trump supporter" may indeed be approaching that level of toxicity in a way, and being an American these days that is who you were referring to most likely. Fanatical is a...loaded (NPI) word no doubt.
Posts: 34733
Threads: 200
Joined: August 13, 2012
Reputation:
145
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 1:14 pm
There's an article on the local news site saying "shooter will face record sentence".
Frankly, if the shooter gets anything other than life without parole, the justice system is fucked up.
Dying to live, living to die.
Posts: 19881
Threads: 324
Joined: July 31, 2016
Reputation:
34
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 1:15 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2019 at 1:16 pm by Gawdzilla Sama.)
(March 17, 2019 at 5:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (March 16, 2019 at 10:57 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I'm not necessarily concerned with the economic pragmatism of the death penalty, I simply think some criminals deserve death.
'Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.' - J.R.R. Tolkien
Boru
Yeah, but Gandalf was gay!
And so was Magneto!
I'm seeing a trend here...
(March 17, 2019 at 1:14 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: There's an article on the local news site saying "shooter will face record sentence". He'll have to listen to ABBA for fifty years? 
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 1:19 pm
(March 17, 2019 at 12:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (March 17, 2019 at 12:03 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Death toll went up to 50.
Nice to know you're keeping score. How is this helpful?
Boru
How is reporting a fact "keeping score"?
I wish people would not use race or religion or firearms to murder each other. But they do, and this is the result.
I wish the number were 0 and not 50, is that a better number for you?
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: Active shooter in NZ
March 17, 2019 at 1:32 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2019 at 1:37 pm by Amarok.)
(March 17, 2019 at 9:48 am)EgoDeath Wrote: (March 17, 2019 at 1:49 am)Amarok Wrote: Actually it isn't cheaper not just for 50 years but for the rest of their lives .
And the reason is ?
What do you mean? The reason they deserve death
(March 17, 2019 at 1:15 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: (March 17, 2019 at 5:52 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 'Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.' - J.R.R. Tolkien
Boru
Yeah, but Gandalf was gay!
And so was Magneto!
I'm seeing a trend here...
(March 17, 2019 at 1:14 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: There's an article on the local news site saying "shooter will face record sentence". He'll have to listen to ABBA for fifty years? Yeah that's not really relivant
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
|
