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[Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
#1
[Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
One of the most interesting verses in the Quran is this verse:


Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
 
Sahih International

(38) And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.

Animals are communities like us as the Quran states. Scientific studies proved that ant colonies and honey bees act in a very organized way similar to humans; or even more organized.

I believe that cats, dogs and whatever other animal out there is a member of such community; so can they understand us? what if animals have consciousness but they don't understand us, just like we don't understand them?

Still across time, humans learned how to raise cats,dogs, horses and other animals to understand some of what they are saying by developing communication techniques between both parties.

Maybe that's why the Quran prohibited eating pigs? Maybe pigs have a higher level of consciousness; it is proved too that they are similar to man anatomy wise. Slaughtering such animals might be a crime just like slaughtering dolphins or cats.

I believe that animals are communities like us; just like the Quran said
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#2
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
(May 7, 2019 at 9:08 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: One of the most interesting verses in the Quran is this verse:


Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
 
Sahih International

(38) And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.

Animals are communities like us as the Quran states. Scientific studies proved that ant colonies and honey bees act in a very organized way similar to humans; or even more organized.

I believe that cats, dogs and whatever other animal out there is a member of such community; so can they understand us? what if animals have consciousness but they don't understand us, just like we don't understand them?

Still across time, humans learned how to raise cats,dogs, horses and other animals to understand some of what they are saying by developing communication techniques between both parties.

Maybe that's why the Quran prohibited eating pigs? Maybe pigs have a higher level of consciousness; it is proved too that they are similar to man anatomy wise. Slaughtering such animals might be a crime just like slaughtering dolphins or cats.

I believe that animals are communities like us; just like the Quran said

Um no.

Sorry Atlass, but there is no holy writing that explains evolution, not yours, not any in human history.

Dietary restrictions first off, are not unique to Islam. Jews don't eat pork either, some Christians only eat fish on Friday, and Hindus don't eat beef.

The most likely reason for those restrictions were that humans got sick from not properly cooking food, and the bacteria got them sick. But because humans didn't know any better, confused that illness as a god being angry at them.

The real reason one should abstain from eating anything is because a dietitian and or a doctor tell you it is unhealthy for you personally. But any animal meat prepared properly, and cooked properly wont kill you. Puffer fish are very poisonous, but in Japan they eat them. I wouldn't, but they have enough experience preparing them they are used to doing that. 

The other reasons not to use an animal as a food source would be global, in that some species are under threat of extinction. None of antiquity, not polytheism of monotheism, had any clue of modern reality.

And as far as treating pigs as pets, yes some people do. But in other parts of the world others see it as food. Just like America loves burgers but in India they don't eat beef. There is nothing sacred about humans being omnivores.
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#3
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
1.  Atlas didn't claim that the Quran explains evolution.

2.  Atlas didn't claim that only Muslims have dietary restrictions.

3.  Atlas offered a reason why the Quran prohibits eating pork, a reason supported by Christopher Hitchens.  Your reason is superfluous and (probably) incorrect.

4.  Atlas never brought up keeping pigs as pets.

Good job droning on and on about points nobody raised.  Nice to know you're consistent.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#4
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
The communities you are referring to are called dominance hierarchies and they have been around far longer than us.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#5
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
(May 7, 2019 at 9:35 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 1.  Atlas didn't claim that the Quran explains evolution.

2.  Atlas didn't claim that only Muslims have dietary restrictions.

3.  Atlas offered a reason why the Quran prohibits eating pork, a reason supported by Christopher Hitchens.  Your reason is superfluous and (probably) incorrect.

4.  Atlas never brought up keeping pigs as pets.

Good job droning on and on about points nobody raised.  Nice to know you're consistent.

Boru

And #3 is why I brought up the rest of my reasons he was wrong.

Ritual is the reason. The only reason. 

He did say "Maybe pigs have higher levels of consciousness". 

 It is true they do feel pain and do have emotions like humans. But they do not have the same level of complex communication as humans. That is not to say humans are an apex of life, we are not. But we are omnivores, like many other mammals. Including some species of pigs. 

Atlass is simply trying to justify his religion, like any other theist does. I don't think he is a bad guy. But none of what he posted explains the nature of reality. It merely reflects his desire to be on the right track.

Other species group yes. But to call them "communities" like humans is not correct and to use the Koran to justify the word "community" is not the same language as when evolutionary biologists talk of ecosystems and and groups. Atlass is trying to square his old book to modern knowledge, and it does not work.
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#6
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
Quote:And #3 is why I brought up the rest of my reasons he was wrong.

Ritual is the reason. The only reason. 

It's not, you know.  If it were the only reason, why did you drag up those idiotic irrelevancies about improperly cooked meat making people sick (which, by the way, has never, EVER caused a culture to ban eating a particular animal).

Quote:He did say "Maybe pigs have higher levels of consciousness". 

Maybe they do.  They're certainly smarter than dogs, and may be as smart as some primates.

Quote:It is true they do feel pain and do have emotions like humans. But they do not have the same level of complex communication as humans.

What does communicative ability have to do with consciousness?  Again, you keep dragging in irrelevancies.

Quote:That is not to say humans are an apex of life, we are not.


If we aren't the apex of life (whatever than means), then what is?

Quote:But we are omnivores, like many other mammals. Including some species of pigs. 

True, if trite and not on topic (and, so you know, ALL pigs are omnivorous, given the chance).

Quote:Atlass is simply trying to justify his religion, like any other theist does. I don't think he is a bad guy. But none of what he posted explains the nature of reality. It merely reflects his desire to be on the right track.

That would be a fair point, if Atlas were trying to explain the nature of reality.  He isn't, so it's not.

Quote:Other species group yes. But to call them "communities" like humans is not correct and to use the Koran to justify the word "community" is not the same language as when evolutionary biologists talk of ecosystems and and groups.


WHY isn't it correct?  How does a community of pigs or elephants or prairie dogs differ in any biological sense from a community of humans?

Quote:Atlass is trying to square his old book to modern knowledge, and it does not work.

In this thread, at least, he's doing nothing of the sort.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#7
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
(May 7, 2019 at 9:08 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: One of the most interesting verses in the Quran is this verse:


Quote:Sura 6, The Quran:
 
Sahih International

(38) And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.

Animals are communities like us as the Quran states. Scientific studies proved that ant colonies and honey bees act in a very organized way similar to humans; or even more organized.

I believe that cats, dogs and whatever other animal out there is a member of such community; so can they understand us? what if animals have consciousness but they don't understand us, just like we don't understand them?

Still across time, humans learned how to raise cats,dogs, horses and other animals to understand some of what they are saying by developing communication techniques between both parties.

Maybe that's why the Quran prohibited eating pigs? Maybe pigs have a higher level of consciousness; it is proved too that they are similar to man anatomy wise. Slaughtering such animals might be a crime just like slaughtering dolphins or cats.

I believe that animals are communities like us; just like the Quran said

I think for this to work you need to narrow your definition of "animal". Not sure if your proposition works for sea anemone's or tapeworms. And you then run into the issue of defining "consciousness".
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#8
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
(May 7, 2019 at 10:40 pm)wyzas Wrote:
(May 7, 2019 at 9:08 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: One of the most interesting verses in the Quran is this verse:



Animals are communities like us as the Quran states. Scientific studies proved that ant colonies and honey bees act in a very organized way similar to humans; or even more organized.

I believe that cats, dogs and whatever other animal out there is a member of such community; so can they understand us? what if animals have consciousness but they don't understand us, just like we don't understand them?

Still across time, humans learned how to raise cats,dogs, horses and other animals to understand some of what they are saying by developing communication techniques between both parties.

Maybe that's why the Quran prohibited eating pigs? Maybe pigs have a higher level of consciousness; it is proved too that they are similar to man anatomy wise. Slaughtering such animals might be a crime just like slaughtering dolphins or cats.

I believe that animals are communities like us; just like the Quran said

I think for this to work you need to narrow your definition of "animal". Not sure if your proposition works for sea anemone's or tapeworms. And you then run into the issue of defining "consciousness".

Thank you  Wyzas . ^^^^^^^^^^ So much this.....
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#9
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
Hey you know how it goes Atlass is thinking about animals a lot these days because it's Ramadan and he's very hungry so he made a post about honey, eating pigs, slaughtering animals.
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#10
RE: [Quranic Reflection] Animals are communities like us
(May 7, 2019 at 10:40 pm)wyzas Wrote: I think for this to work you need to narrow your definition of "animal". Not sure if your proposition works for sea anemone's or tapeworms. And you then run into the issue of defining "consciousness".

The consciousness is coming from the brain. Disagreeing on its definition does not change its main attribute: "we are here; we exist".


Quote:An ant brain has about 250 000 brain cells. A human brain has 10,000 million so a colony of 40,000 ants has collectively the same size brain as a human.

https://lingolex.com/ants.htm

A single human though has about 10,000 million brain cells while a single ant has 250,000 brain cells only.
I think if something has no brain; they won't have consciousness.

We, humans are having a harder time with the concept of God for example because we have lots of brain cells; so we think more. Animals have lesser number; so they don't bother much like us, to them life is very simple. A lion has no enough brain cells to question your political affiliation before eating you, but a dog might have just enough brain cells to remember your smell and your voice.
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