Deprogramming Required

[JicJac]

Deprogramming Required
No, not for me - for you.

Atheists are always kicking themselves in the ass trying to find ways to deprogram themselves from the cradle-to-grave, day-in and day-out bombardment of religious dogma they've been pelted with since birth. And, if you find the solution, how do you share your success with others and passively begin to deprogram devout religious zealots? I found a simple subliminal way. It works for me and I'll share it with you.

First, remove all magical words from your written and spoken vocabulary. Just don't use them. For instance, the word hope. What does hope buy you? Hope and a couple bucks will buy you a cup of coffee. Hope doesn't magically make you well, win the lottery or prevent you from missing your favorite show. Time and medicine (if appropriate) is the cure for illness, hope has no influence on the statistical odds you'll win the lottery and if you get a flat tire you'll never get home in time to watch your favorite show. You can hope till the cows come home. Or hope the cows will come home. The value of hope is zero. The value of faith is zero. The value of wish is zero. The value of thanking or blaming gawd for anything and everything is zero. The value of prayer is zero.

Oh, did I say gawd? Like I hear 1000 times on every episode of house makeover or design shows. The unveiling and, "OH MY GAWD!!!, OH MY GAWD, OH MY GAWD!" There ought to be a law. Imagine one of those shows and every time a person walks into a room you hear, "Praise Allah, Praise Allah....". Ain't gonna happen. Most people would find it disgusting and call the FCC. Maybe WE should.

Ok, this brings me to phase 2. It's almost impossible to stop using all the magical words. After all, we need to communicate. But do your part. What's wrong with gawd (lower case please) and jebus or some other disrespectful spelling. Remember, blasphemy is a victimless crime.

These ideas may seem foolish and have little impact, but you'd be surprised. Every time you see something pretty, scary, wonderful, etc., refrain from saying omg. You may be surprised just how difficult it is. Oh, never tell someone you will prey for them. Give me a break. What's an atheist or nontheist doing preying or hoping someone gets better. You have no power. Don't kid yourself, friends or family.

My ideas for peaceful activism work. Stop perpetuating the foolishness. Help slow down this dam (notice dam, not damn) bulldozing train one word at a time.

JJ

[thesummerqueen]

1) The word's intrinsic value does not change simply because you changed the spelling. In fact, you look quite foolish spelling "pray" as "prey" since we have agreed that one means one thing and the other means another. Spelling "god" as "gawd" will not do anything as in context they both mean the same thing. And while some people find humor in spelling "Jesus" as "Jebus", it reminds me too much of my childhood spent not spelling "God" because it would offend The Lord, and thus we wrote "G-d" because Jews are afraid of proper names or some shit. You are perpetuating the idea that the "proper" spelling somehow has power simply by deciding you have to disrespect it in that way.

2) Well hello. Welcome to the forums. May I ask where you're from? What brought you here? Could you give us a brief run down of why you're a non-theist?

Worrying about people who clearly don't believe in god saying "Oh my god" is as bad as those fuckwits who think the English language is slowly dying simply because we use curse words. This is one of the phrases we use when we're expressing astonishment, wonder, fear, or disbelief. I'd say "Oh my Invisible Pink Unicorn!!" but it takes too damn long to say.

[JicJac]

1) The word's intrinsic value does not change simply because you changed the spelling. In fact, you look quite foolish spelling "pray" as "prey" since we have agreed that one means one thing and the other means another. Spelling "god" as "gawd" will not do anything as in context they both mean the same thing. And while some people find humor in spelling "Jesus" as "Jebus", it reminds me too much of my childhood spent not spelling "God" because it would offend The Lord, and thus we wrote "G-d" because Jews are afraid of proper names or some shit. You are perpetuating the idea that the "proper" spelling somehow has power simply by deciding you have to disrespect it in that way.

2) Well hello. Welcome to the forums. May I ask where you're from? What brought you here? Could you give us a brief run down of why you're a non-theist?

Worrying about people who clearly don't believe in god saying "Oh my god" is as bad as those fuckwits who think the English language is slowly dying simply because we use curse words. This is one of the phrases we use when we're expressing astonishment, wonder, fear, or disbelief. I'd say "Oh my Invisible Pink Unicorn!!" but it takes too damn long to say.

TSQ,

Thank you for the thoughtful and comprehensive response.

Before posting I read the list of rules (guidelines?) and realized there is a substantial emphasis on proper grammar and careful spelling. Therefore, it is understandable why my idea to use words such as gawd might seem childish, annoying and problematic. You are correct in saying the context does not change. What does change however is the awareness of how often these magical words are used in day-to-day communication. Here it the forum, constantly misspelling words would become tedious and annoying. I agree. This is because the intent of forum is to discuss religion. Therefore, unpractical. However, in real-world communications, I recommend it. At a minimum, stay away from magical words (hope, faith, wish, etc.). It is not because I expect these words to disappear, but as a tool to create an awareness of how often these words are used and have become part of our lexicon. At the expense of possibly being banned from the forum for bad grammar, I will personally continue to use the word gawd.

In answer to your questions.... I am originally from New England. I moved to the babble belt in the early 70's, after military and marriage. I was a member of this board years ago. I got flamed relentlessly for insulting a joo. (*Man, TSQ is gonna hate that word/spelling.) I forget the context and tried to retract, but the damage was done. It seems like all faiths are fair game for stomping except one.

I am a nontheist. It's difficult but very satisfying. You will not find me in a verbal arena arguing the nuts and bolts of the babble, any ancient document or dogma. To me it's like arguing which Eather bunny tastes best. Or if Santa Clown is real. Fuck it. Save the dog-chasing-tail arguments for the fence-sitting atheist. I want to scrub the world clean of the scourge called religion and all the wars, trauma and hate that tags along with it.

I don't hate, despise or look down any individual victimized by religion. They are merely victims. For the most part, they are so wrapped up in their beliefs, they are unreachable zombies. The way I figure it, at lease here where atheist hang, my views have a possibility of gaining some traction. My thoughts and methods may seem radical to some, but I write that off as their inability to reverse the cradle-to-grave relentless day-to-day brain washing indoctrination to the quicksand known as religion. They too are victims.

Hey, I just thought of something. You are welcome to use it.... "Religion Is NOT A Victimless Crime".

JJ

[thesummerqueen]

Before posting I read the list of rules (guidelines?) and realized there is a substantial emphasis on proper grammar and careful spelling. Therefore, it is understandable why my idea to use words such as gawd might seem childish, annoying and problematic. You are correct in saying the context does not change. What does change however is the awareness of how often these magical words are used in day-to-day communication. Here it the forum, constantly misspelling words would become tedious and annoying. I agree. This is because the intent of forum is to discuss religion. Therefore, unpractical. However, in real-world communications, I recommend it. At a minimum, stay away from magical words (hope, faith, wish, etc.). It is not because I expect these words to disappear, but as a tool to create an awareness of how often these words are used and have become part of our lexicon. At the expense of possibly being banned from the forum for bad grammar, I will personally continue to use the word gawd.

We can argue this, but I think you're mistaken in how many of us who are already atheist do or do not realize how often these words are used. Since many of us are voracious readers and a good many of us writers of some fashion, we're spectacularly aware of words.

Let me just quote Carlin here though, as I think you'll get the point:

Now I've probably got the feminists all pissed off at me because I'm joking about rape. Feminists want to control your language. Feminists want to tell you how to talk. And they're not alone. Their not alone. I'm not picking on the feminists. They got a lot of company in this country. There's a lot of groups, a lot of institutions in this country want to control your language. Tell you what you can say and what you can't say. Government wants to tell you some things you can't say because it's against the law. Well you can't say this because it's against the regulation. Well here's something you can't say because it's a secret. "You can't tell him that, because he's not clear to know that." Government wants to control information and control language, because that's the way you control thought...and basically that's the game they're in. Same with religion. Religion is nothing but mind control. Religion is just trying to control your mind, control your thought, so they're going to tell you some things you shouldn't say because they're sins. And besides telling you some things you shouldn't say, religion's going to suggest to you some things you ought to be saying. Here's something you ought to say first thing when you wake up in the morning. Here's something you ought to say just before you go to sleep at night. Here's something we always say on the third Wednesday in April after the first full moon in spring at four o'clock when the bells ring. Religion is always suggesting things you ought to be saying. Same with political groups of all kinds, political activists, anti- bias groups, special interest groups, are going to suggest the correct political vocabulary. The way you ought to be saying things, and that's where the feminists come in...

...All they're interested in is their own reproductive freedom...and their pocketbooks. But, when it comes to changing the language, I think they make some good points, because we do think in language and so the quality of our thoughts and ideas could only be as good as the quality of our language. So maybe some of this patriarcho shit ought to go away. I think spokesman ought to be spokesperson. I think chairman ought to be chairperson. I think mankind ought to be human kind, but they take it too far, they take themselves too seriously, they exaggerate. They want me to call that thing in the street a personhole cover. I think that's taking it a little bit too far. What would you call a lady's man, a person's person? That would make a He-man an It-person. Little kids would be afraid of the boogieperson. They'd look up in the sky and see the person in the moon. Guys would say come back here and fight like a person. And we'd all sing "for it's a jolly good person." That's the kind of thing you would hear on late-night with David Letterperson. You know what I mean? So...so I think it's an exaggeration and I like to piss off any group that take's itself a little bit too seriously.

Completely unrelated, but quite close in the same act, and it cracks me up every time:

Now, speaking of blowjobs, do you know why they call it a blowjob? So it'll sound like it has kind of a work ethic attached to it. Make you feel like you did something useful for the economy.

In answer to your questions.... I am originally from New England. I moved to the babble belt in the early 70's, after military and marriage.

May I ask whereabouts? I live in North Carolina.

I was a member of this board years ago. I got flamed relentlessly for insulting a joo. (*Man, TSQ is gonna hate that word/spelling.) I forget the context and tried to retract, but the damage was done. It seems like all faiths are fair game for stomping except one.

Interesting. Do you remember the member? As far as I know, and I've not been here long, I'm the only proclaimed "Jew".

Yes. I hate the spelling. Not because I feel you're disrespecting my "religion", but because my eye is actually twitching in stress at the deliberate misspelling.

More importantly I think: insult the Jewish faith all you want. I do it myself. I identify myself as a Jew because...I was born one. I was raised one. I have a Jewish mother who drives me up the goddamn wall weekly (I refuse to call her more often than that). Just understand that you better phrase your "insults" so that they're clearly about Judaism, and not me. I am not overly sensitive like my "brothers and sisters" shouting for Palin's lynching because of her use of "blood libel", but you still better make it crystal.

I want to scrub the world clean of the scourge called religion and all the wars, trauma and hate that tags along with it.

Now we get into the meat of why I disagree with you - I understand, and I agree to a point. In my mind, getting rid of certain words would be like erasing years of literature and artwork simply because it was created in a religious context. You can't appreciate it objectively? Not believing in Jesus doesn't make my appreciation for Dali's version of the Last Supper any less profound. Then again, I'm in love with William Bouguereau's sumptuous "Birth of Venus" and I don't believe in Venus either. It's a part of our history. It's an expression.

Personally, I think you're overreacting.

[JicJac]

I'm not sure how to do the cut-n-paste quote thing, so I'll do my best to keep my reply in context.

I live in Rock Hill, SC.

I was a member of this forum years go. I was afraid you might ask me the exact date. Usually I include these thing. I like being specific. I am searching my DBs now to see if I can unearth something I can tie to a date. My date/time recollection has never been good and seems worse now due to age and the brain surgery I had a year ago to have a meningioma tumor removed. Ok, ok, I found something, it looks like I was a member of the forum in March of 05.

I think it is reasonably accepted that when people say they dislike Muslims, they broad brush the good with the bad but are generally referring to the religion that drives their beliefs, actions, culture. There are many bigots out there who "have black friends". I'm a fan of broad brush. This makes me unpopular. I am of Irish descent. I have no objection to anyone broad brushing me as a beer drinking, cussing, spitfire WASP. They'd be wrong about the WASP part, but no bother. I believe for the most part that cultures centered around a rigid core faith are so consumed by it that most of the individuals become an extension of their faith. According to Wikipedia: Pakistan, for example, has legislation which makes execution a penalty for blasphemy. Also ref: http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_pakis.htm . Therefore, I suggest that most of the 77% Sunni Muslims waste a lot of their time worshiping on schedule and much of their lives are wasted preying. So, if I should meet a Sunni Muslim from Pakistan, I would pre-suppose (right or wrong) certain things about him/her. If I met a Pakistani I'd have a 97% chance of being correct in assuming he/she is Muslim. 3% of the time I'd be wrong, but I can live with that.

I don't want to be misleading. I could care less what people around the world want to believe - as long as it doesn't fuck up my life or my family's life. I have no interest in dying in a war fought over religious differences. How insane. How archaic. What bothers me to no end is the inescapable daily drum beat of religion in MY daily life. OMG! Pfffffft.

I am not into erasing literature or art. Dali is my favorite surrealist and have no interest in dismantling the Sistine Chapel. The babble and all the worshiping of fictitious characters that go with it belong in the library on the myth shelf along with the likes of Jason and the Argonauts, King Kong and Cinderella. And of course make it available on CD from Amazon.

And finally, I am not exaggerating. What you may incorrectly perceive as irrational radicalism may only be the difference between an atheist and a nontheist. I don't believe in magic or magical things. Therefore I want that crap out of my life. And as a service to others, I'm going what I can to get it out of theirs as well.

Off to see the Wizard,

JJ

[Of_Tomato]

Hello.

[JicJac]

Hello.

Hey Of,

Hello to you too.

JJ

[Ryft]

So far as I can tell, this place did not exist until 2008; and the Internet Archive says it did not exist prior to 2007. So what was here in March 2005?

Welcome to the forums.

[JicJac]

So far as I can tell, this place did not exist until 2008; and the Internet Archive says it did not exist prior to 2007. So what was here in March 2005?

Welcome to the forums.

Ah. Ok, I'm busted. Busted for making a legitimate mistake. It was a different forum. I did some more research this morning. The site I was flamed at is the Infidel Guy. My mistake. I know it is important to fact check, but hey, I'm human. Despite my passion for the subject of atheism/nontheism, I don't participate in these forums. Until just now I didn't realize there were two major forums discussing the same issues.

Thanks for discovering my mistake,

JJ

[thesummerqueen]

There is no room for mistakes with Ryftie-roo!