Ancient Astronaut Theory

[Anomalocaris]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, Chuck. Busy weekend.

Anyway, let's assume for the moment that what the Egyptologists say is correct. These pyramids were the egotistical expression of reverence for the pharaoh and meant to be his tomb for eternity. We already see, in the Pyramid of Menkaure, a smaller version of a pyramid. It's about half the size of the two large Giza Pyramids but every bit as technically proficient in execution. The last two rulers of the 4th Dynasty ( Shepseskaf and Khentykawes) built mastabas not pyramids. Then comes Userkapf founding the 5th Dynasty and we are back to pyramids and by the end of the 5th Dynasty we see the growth of the cult in the form of the pyramid texts being written on the walls and ceilings. Put yourself in Userkapf's position. He's the KING. He's got legions of priests telling him that he's a god. Perhaps they lacked the resources to build a pyramid as big as the earlier ones but why would they build a pile of junk? Could the knowledge have dissipated that quickly? The presumption is that there were masters teaching apprentices and in such a way maintaining the knowledge of the craft. It could have been written down but we have no example of such a document but it was a literate society so it is not impossible. I don't see the "trend away" from pyramids. They became more closely identified with the cult of the pharaoh in the 5th ad 6th dynasty and cultures usually waste lots of time and treasure on 'holy buildings' that could be better spent on other tasks. The apparent rise in the religiosity of the pyramids is in contrast to the poor quality of the buildings themselves and that is a mystery..

I meant a trend away from making the same scale of investment in pyramids. The knowledge certainly didn't dissipate. The size of the stones and proficiency of masonry work seen in later Egyptian construction projects such as the mortuary temples and oblisks certainly equalled in all and exceeded in most technical respects found in pyramids. A single monolithic oblisk can be more massive than the combined weight of all the supposedly implausibly massive relieving masory found over the king's chamber in the great pyramid. I believe a single monolithic1400 ton oblisk was attempted. The only point of appearent regression is in the mass of and total investment in single structures. Hence my statement about declining relative importance of the pyramids. As mark of genuine commitment, pyramid text and cultish practices is no substitute for willingness to invest economic resource. I might even venture to suggest that the appearent increased devotion to the pyramid cult following end of 4th dynasty to be a reflection of the priesthood's reaction to the decreased devotion of resources to the pyramid by the pharoah.

I agree completely...especially since we have the marks of copper chisels on the stones themselves. The only problem I have is the time constraint. There is no way in hell that the GP and the Khafre pyramids could have been constructed in 20 years unless they had a fleet of helicopters ferrying the stones in. As Brier says, there are significant impediments to every ramp idea, even though he was pushing for an internal ramp which has some pretty serious problems, too.

We don't need aliens to explain the GP. We just need a lot more time to do the job.

I need to see a single decisive unanswerable objection to pyramid being built in 20 years, not a lot of "it's awefully hard for us to imagine it being pulled off with techniques we can dream up in our complacent but utterly inexperienced minds while sitting in our armchairs". I think the main challenge is one of organization, not technology. And I believe a brilliant organizer from 5000 years ago can come quite close to modern standard of efficient organization.

[Anomalocaris]

The most damning criticism of the theory is that the Khafre Pyramid, right next door, shows none of the outer signs that are claimed for the the GP. Both are astounding pieces of construction and similar, if not identical, methods must have been used in their construction. Yet, Khafre has no internal chambers.

Also, think about the Egyptian sun. They are proposing a cramped, stone, oven for crews to pull these sleds with 2.5 ton stones. When Brier climbed up to the supposed "notch" which was theorized to be a turning point to get the stones around the corners, he found no evidence indicating it had ever been suitable for that purpose.

I thought Khafre had internal chambers, certainly it had at least 2 external entrances to something that was first opened by the Arabs in the 1300s and then opened again in the late 1880s.

I personally doubt the internal ramp hypothesis. The Arabs cut a deep slash onto the face of Menkaure in the 12th century. That gash should be deep enough to reveal any spiraling internal ramp hypothesized. Also a internal ramp would require large roofing slabs that would making the pyramid much more difficult to construct, and much more vulnerable to failure.

I favor an external ramp whose rocks are reused as casing for the pyramid. It may spiral up the pyramid, or zig zag up each side. I also wouln't be surprised at all if the Eqyptians had the use of rope ways, block and pulley, and wooden rachets, to make primitive cranes with mechanic advantage. Assuming 4 ramps, one up each side, then each ramp needs to transport only about 80 stones a day, a rate of 1 stone every 10 minutes or so, which seems to me to be a manageable traffic on a ramp. I also suspect that instead of teams of men dragging stones up the ramps as they go, some sort of rope way might be arranged where the labors more or less stand in place, and pull on continuous loops of ropes which carry rocks up the ramps in a conveyor fashion. The ropes would be protected by rachets to keep rocks from sliding backwards in between concerted pulls. Only the very last stretch, where the stones come off of prearranged rope way and get manhandled to the actual location where the rock would be set would there be teams of men actually dragging the stones around.

[Autumnlicious]

IT ALL MAKES SENSE!


Egyptians... IN SPACE!

[Minimalist]

I need to see a single decisive unanswerable objection to pyramid being built in 20 years, not a lot of "it's awefully hard for us to imagine it being pulled off with techniques we can dream up in our complacent but utterly inexperienced minds while sitting in our armchairs".

Hmmm.... I see it the other way. The Egyptologists are the ones who insist that it was built in 20 years using copper chisels and dolomite hammers. Have they ever tried an experiment? I recall one program where the extraordinary accuracy of the pyramid's placement was explained by claiming that a weighted string was held up to the sky between two stars and a line drawn. In this manner (it was alleged) the Egyptians obtained the remarkable accuracy of a less than 5 percent of one degree deviation from true north. Did they show an experiment to replicate such precision? No. They simply stated it....preacher like...and moved on. That bothers me.

Egyptologist Mark Lehner once tried an experiment to see how many stones a dozen men could quarry... except he gave them iron tools and a winch.

I don't think Egyptologists should be exempt from having to produce evidence to support their theory.

Moving that number of stones, that high into the air, using the techniques that THEY claim were in use ( this is not something that I invented) in 20 years seems absurd on its face. But if they would conduct an experiment to show how their methods worked I would be delighted.







I also do not intend to hold my breath waiting.

[iggy660]

So aliens supposedly visited Earth a few thousand years ago and the only think they teach people is how to move rocks around? They can travel thousands of light years through space and they don't teavh anything about medicine? phsyics? anything? Also, wouldn't there be some sort of evidence left behind to at least hint they were here?

[Minimalist]

I suppose the argument is that the only thing remaining are the stones. Bullshit? Yes. But its a crack pot theory to begin with so one cannot be surprised.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I suppose the argument is that the only thing remaining are the stones. Bullshit? Yes. But its a crack pot theory to begin with so one cannot be surprised.

Having first run across this crackpottery in 1971,I bemuses me,and reinforces my misanthropy that it continues to resurface every few years. Plus, that it not only spews the same arguments from incredulity, but also quotes the same loopy fucking books as often as not.

There are two things which are infinite; the universe and human stupidity (Albert Einstein)

I think he may have been mistaken about the universe.

[Minimalist]

I always used to half-joke over at Archaeologica that in 10,000 years archaeologists will find Mount Rushmore and jump to the conclusion that these were our 'gods.'

Then, they will find the foundation for the snack bar, gift shop, and rest rooms and determine that it was the mortuary temple and the plumbing was to catch the blood of sacrificial victims.

Archaeology does have its blinders but it is still a huge jump to attributing those things to "aliens."

[downbeatplumb]

On a related issue what do you make of the "baghdad battery"

http://theunexplainedmysteries.com/egyptian-lamp.html

[swami-sam-ananda]

jasoncolavito.com debunks the whole of this so-called 'theory' with having every single point mentioned and debunked.