Choosing who you are

[Amarok]

Oh dear this thread ...... I would comment especially on the whole native rights issue (special rights WTF ) but I have hard time believing I could be civil .

[brewer]

cesspool, not swimming

[Fake Messiah]

I guess at first sight it may seem that trans people may be obsessed with gender, and that normal people generally don't bother much what gender they are. And really, what does it specifically mean to be a man or a woman?

But on the other hand sometimes I meet people that don't look their "official" gender. Like I specifically remember meeting a woman who not only had mustaches and short hair but also had a posture that seemed much more like a man - something that I wasn't aware was a thing between genders - although she was short like women usually are.

And, onlinebiker, if you are against trans people and gender changes (I'm not saying you neccesarily are) would you be comfortable dating a woman I just described? Or even dancing with her? Or would it not seem strange seeing some other guy dancing with that kind of a woman?

Indeed, this reminds me of a curious video where Bill Burr and Lea DeLaria (a butch woman) were at Conan o'Brien. At one point Lea starts taking off her jacket and she's having problems with it, so she complains to Burr what kind of gentleman he is for not helping her with her. Indeed she is so butch that to Burr's mind she doesn't even register as a woman, but as a guy.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Sex is not changeable, it is gender that is changeable, or as my sociology teacher likes to put it "Sex is what parts you're born with, gender's what's in your head". It's pretty simple logic from there. That's why i do believe trans people are encouraged to put the sex they're born as on medical forms, rather than the gender they choose to be. 

For most people, including transsexuals, gender identity is not changeable. It would be easier to change their gender otherwise than to change sex. Only in genderfluid people is it actually changeable. Hence the reason there is a special label for it. What happens is that it can take a long while for transsexuals to realise who they really are. Partly due to denial, but also because it can be really difficult to diagnose what the problem is.

And no, trans people should not have to put their assigned sex on medical forms. That's just traumatising for the sake of it. Also not helpful because if they change sex then they are get to suffer from the same medical problems as their chosen sex while being less susceptible from other problems typical of their assigned sex.So they are also more likely to get the wrong treatment. And it opens them up to prejudice. Putting their assigned sex on medical forms will in most cases only harm them physically, mentally and emotionally.

That's not to say that their medical history should not record the fact that they changed sex, because doing so in itself has its own medical problems.

Hope that clears some things up for you.

Sorry to have to say this but you are completely mistaken about the nature of transsexuality. Don't feel bad about it though. Most people are.

Gender identity is as core part of you as say growing up knowing one day that you want to be a mother. But for most people this is not apparent because their gender identity matches their physical sex.

[Jello]

Sex is not changeable, it is gender that is changeable, or as my sociology teacher likes to put it "Sex is what parts you're born with, gender's what's in your head". It's pretty simple logic from there. That's why i do believe trans people are encouraged to put the sex they're born as on medical forms, rather than the gender they choose to be. 

For most people, including transsexuals, gender identity is not changeable. It would be easier to change their gender otherwise than to change sex. Only in genderfluid people is it actually changeable. Hence the reason there is a special label for it. What happens is that it can take a long while for transsexuals to realise who they really are. Partly due to denial, but also because it can be really difficult to diagnose what the problem is.

And no, trans people should not have to put their assigned sex on medical forms. That's just traumatising for the sake of it. Also not helpful because if they change sex then they are get to suffer from the same medical problems as their chosen sex while being less susceptible from other problems typical of their assigned sex.So they are also more likely to get the wrong treatment. And it opens them up to prejudice. Putting their assigned sex on medical forms will in most cases only harm them physically, mentally and emotionally.

That's not to say that their medical history should not record the fact that they changed sex, because doing so in itself has its own medical problems.

Hope that clears some things up for you.

Sorry to have to say this but you are completely mistaken about the nature of transsexuality. Don't feel bad about it though. Most people are.

Gender identity is as core part of you as say growing up knowing one day that you want to be a mother. But for most people this is not apparent because their gender identity matches their physical sex.

Identifying as another gender doesn't rid you of the natural pre-dispositions to certain illnesses that each sex has. That's why it is encouraged to put what sex you are born as on medical forms, so your doctor doesn't rule out serious diseases because as far as they know, you shouldn't be susceptible to them. It's not out of hostile intent, it's with the best intent in mind. 

I say that the gender identity is changeable in the sense of "it can be not what you are born as", which i know doesn't quite come through in the actual wording, but i couldn't really think how to put it at the time. 

Also, i haven't been "completely mistaken" as i am close friends with a trans-person, which i know is a subjective point, but i'd think they would have explained it otherwise to me if they hadn't agreed with the points they'd made, but do go on.

Furthermore, please don't do that "don't feel bad about it though" stuff with me, i find it extremely patronizing, and it really doesn't help further your point.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

OLB isn't a troll.  His views, questions, topics may not sit well with some but the tight little group that is determined to troll him at every turn have done a fine job painting him as a troll.

I can pretty much list who is going to jump on the 'argue with OLB bandwagon'.  It's so predictable and trollish.

Being a troll yourself colors your perceptions.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Identifying as another gender doesn't rid you of the natural pre-dispositions to certain illnesses that each sex has. That's why it is encouraged to put what sex you are born as on medical forms, so your doctor doesn't rule out serious diseases because as far as they know, you shouldn't be susceptible to them. It's not out of hostile intent, it's with the best intent in mind. 

But transitioning means that you are changing the physiology of your body because of the hormones. Writing down male on a medical form when you are male to female would mean that your increased chance of getting breast cancer would be ignored for example. This not just an exception, this is the norm. Other than a few medical conditions specific to fertility a transsexual person's is better treated like that of their chosen gender.

Writing down your assigned gender on a medical form is probably the worst thing you can do.

Also, i haven't been "completely mistaken" as i am close friends with a trans-person, which i know is a subjective point, but i'd think they would have explained it otherwise to me if they hadn't agreed with the points they'd made, but do go on.

Furthermore, please don't do that "don't feel bad about it though" stuff with me, i find it extremely patronizing, and it really doesn't help further your point.

OK, I'll say it again but without the patronising manner.

You are wrong about putting your assigned gender on the medical form and are ignorant about the psychological harm that having to do so can do to the patient.

I say that the gender identity is changeable in the sense of "it can be not what you are born as", which i know doesn't quite come through in the actual wording, but i couldn't really think how to put it at the time.

Fair enough.

[I_am_not_mafia]

My apologies if I have come across as harsh. I've been in a bad mood all week.

[no one]

You are who you are, if others can not accept that, fuck them. Right. Where. They. Breathe!

[Jello]

Identifying as another gender doesn't rid you of the natural pre-dispositions to certain illnesses that each sex has. That's why it is encouraged to put what sex you are born as on medical forms, so your doctor doesn't rule out serious diseases because as far as they know, you shouldn't be susceptible to them. It's not out of hostile intent, it's with the best intent in mind. 

But transitioning means that you are changing the physiology of your body because of the hormones. Writing down male on a medical form when you are male to female would mean that your increased chance of getting breast cancer would be ignored for example. This not just an exception, this is the norm. Other than a few medical conditions specific to fertility a transsexual person's is better treated like that of their chosen gender.

Writing down your assigned gender on a medical form is probably the worst thing you can do.

Also, i haven't been "completely mistaken" as i am close friends with a trans-person, which i know is a subjective point, but i'd think they would have explained it otherwise to me if they hadn't agreed with the points they'd made, but do go on.

Furthermore, please don't do that "don't feel bad about it though" stuff with me, i find it extremely patronizing, and it really doesn't help further your point.

OK, I'll say it again but without the patronising manner.

You are wrong about putting your assigned gender on the medical form and are ignorant about the psychological harm that having to do so can do to the patient.

I say that the gender identity is changeable in the sense of "it can be not what you are born as", which i know doesn't quite come through in the actual wording, but i couldn't really think how to put it at the time.

Fair enough.

I'm not ignorant to the psychological harm, and i think it's an interesting attempt to make me look bad, i'm just saying that if you want to look after someone's wellbeing, you gotta include the physiological as well as the mental, or is it just mental health that matters, even when specific cancers that are more common to your sex strike because you didn't want to put what you were born as.

For instance, from my research, the prostate isn't removed in a male-to-female transition. Sure sucks when someone gets really bad prostate cancer because they didn't tell their doctor they were born male. 

Trust me, i wish it were that magical, and that we could just instantaneously be whomever/whatever we want to be. But you gotta consider your physical health, because cancer doesn't care who you are.