Early Islam and healthcare

[WinterHold]

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

[WinterHold]

[Deesse23]

Many people think that the story of our modern civilization started in Rome and there is no mention for anything other than that between Rome and the illumination period,

You maybe think that many people think...
but thats rather part of ignorance on your side.

Scientific (and cultural) achievements of the muslim world are kommon knowledge around here in EU. However that doesnt make this particular religion less violent or gives credence to its claims about the divine.

[WinterHold]

Many people think that the story of our modern civilization started in Rome and there is no mention for anything other than that between Rome and the illumination period,

You maybe think that many people think...
but thats rather part of ignorance on your side.

Scientific (and cultural) achievements of the muslim world are kommon knowledge around here in EU. However that doesnt make this particular religion less violent or gives credence to its claims about the divine.

It doesn't seem that way when you consider the amounts of Europeans standing with Right wing's propaganda. The Right is winning and it uses xenophobia and denying Muslims of their real history as a favorite asset to win.

Muslim history is being dumped underground, and ignoring the existence of Muslims is widespread, it even reached the degree of demonizing Muslim civilizations like the Ottoman civilization without any shame; forgetting real grand demons like HItler, Vlad and the Crusaders.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You maybe think that many people think...
but thats rather part of ignorance on your side.

Scientific (and cultural) achievements of the muslim world are kommon knowledge around here in EU. However that doesnt make this particular religion less violent or gives credence to its claims about the divine.

It doesn't seem that way when you consider the amounts of Europeans standing with Right wing's propaganda. The Right is winning and it uses xenophobia and denying Muslims of their real history as a favorite asset to win.

Muslim history is being dumped underground, and ignoring the existence of Muslims is widespread, it even reached the degree of demonizing Muslim civilizations like the Ottoman civilization without any shame; forgetting real grand demons like HItler, Vlad and the Crusaders.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  You're a victim.  Blah bitty blah bitty blah.  Play another tune.

Boru

[Deesse23]

It doesn't seem that way when you consider the amounts of Europeans standing with Right wing's propaganda.

14-16% of Germans would vote for the right wing xenophbic party if today were elections. Thats 1/6.

The Right is winning and it uses xenophobia and denying Muslims of their real history as a favorite asset to win.

They have risen, more or less, depending on what area/country you are looking at. Winning? Not...yet.
Does it use xenophhobia? Sure, but its directed against everybody, not only muslims.
Denying their history? Where? When? Examples please.

Muslim history is being dumped underground,

Where? When? Examples?
On german TV there is routinely history docus about islam and its achievements during the medieval age (broaadly speaking in terms of time). Nothing hidden, dumped, twisted.

and ignoring the existence of Muslims is widespread,

...and i thought part of the problem of xenophobia is to think that too many *pick your favourite foreigners* are around. I thought the knowledge of the dominance, based on brutal expansionism of the Ottoman empire is what makes so many people afraid.
If foreigners could be conveniently ignored, as you said, then xenophobia wouldnt be a thing.

it even reached the degree of demonizing Muslim civilizations like the Ottoman civilization without any shame;

Where? When? Examples please.
Didnt you just say a minute ago muslim history got "dumped underground", that "ignoring the existence of muslims"?

forgetting real grand demons like HItler, Vlad and the Crusaders.

"Real demons", mhm? "Look, over THERE", mhm? Vlad Tepes et al notwithstanding, the Ottoman Empire had some pretty repugnant customs, dont you agree? Devshirme, anybody? Ottoman corsairs raiding christian/european coastlines for loot and slaves? What about the great tradition of *eliminating* all your brothers in order to become sultan. Arent there quite a few small coffins in ottoman tombs in and around Topkapi? Not very civilized to kill small boys, dont you think?
Does whatever Vlad Tepes did, make any of this better?


Lets have a look at Vlad Tepes:
He became to hate the muslims because....oh hey, wait, because the Sultan requested to have him and his brothers as a hostage*. Because the Sultan requested to have the Devshirme done in Wallachia every year? Because the Ottomans intended to subdue Wallachia?
He was Voivod of Wallachia for a mere six years. For how long again did the Ottomans the Ottoman things i pointed out above? 500 years, give or take? Where did Vlad do this thing? In and near Wallachia. The Ottomans? Can we agree on "roughly, the complete mediterranean and the arab peninsula as well, for a loooong time"? Would that be accurrate enough for you?
Did Vlad invade half of the known world in order to force his religion and/or reign on everybody, like the Ottomans, or was he rather what we would call a "freedom fighter", fighting for the freedom of his country/people from Ottoman yoke?

Why Vlad at all, and not Stephen The Great who gave the Ottmans a way better run for the money for much longer time and dealt them the biggest military defeat ever? Why not Prince Eugene? Didnt we already discuss this issue?

Im not even going to adress Crusaders or Hitler, because, frankly, i have better things to do.


*would you rate Arminius as such a "real demon" as well? Would you rate Osman I such a demon for rebelling against the reign of Rum Seldjuks or the Ilkhanate?

[downbeatplumb]

[LastPoet]

[The Valkyrie]

It’s well known that Islam kept alive the sciences taught by the Greeks and Romans and built upon them while Europe sank into the Dark Ages of ignorance and fanaticism.

Very few dispute these facts or that the golden age of Islam happened.

I don’t think anyone has any doubts that the Crusade had a profound effect on the psyche of the people of the region.

Remember, though, that Islam was also spread by the sword across North Africa and into Europe.

Both sides committed huge atrocities against one another, themselves, and the innocent around them.