Jews don't get a pass from me either.

[Brian37]

Please spare me.

I am not out to dictate to the world. I am arguing if somone, anyone agrees we are all humans, then the idea that a religion/god makes us different, I do object to that logic. 

"So what" in what context? If she returns to her Jewish faith, not a damned legal thing I can do, nor would want to do to stop her. 

But in terms of logic, which if you would read my prior post, makes no logical sense. I am sure it makes her happy, but that doesn't make it provable.  

I have seen plenty of people in my life who are weekend worshipers, or holiday worshipers, OF MANY religions, who don't go regularly, and don't follow the traditions, whom, upon sudden stress fall back into it. I have a family member who came out to me almost a decade ago being a former Christian, called herself an atheist. Earlier this year she unfortunately lost both her adoptive parents on top of getting a divorce. Now she claims she is "Knights Templar" Christian. 

If you read my prior post, the lady on the show said that she had gone through a bad breakup. Trauma causes humans to seek out comfort. It does not mean what they seek comfort from is provable. 

She found a placebo, she did not find a provable truth that is universal.

From your prior post, she never claimed that it was provable, just that it works for her.

And the thing about placebos is that they work.

Boru

Yep, religion works for for most humans, and?

Yet our species is far older than written religion, the planet far older than our species, the universe far older than our planet, and nobody wants to face the fact that our species nor the religious we concoct will be around after our star dies.

Yes, placebos do work. Worked for the ancient Egyptians for 3,000 years, but nobody today believes in Ra, Osiris, Isis or Horus. Placebos worked for the ancient Romans and Ancient Greeks. And? If our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves. 

It isn't a matter of force, so please do not imply that with me. It is a matter to me, our species willing to question social norms and be willing to give up on bad data.

[Belacqua]

But in terms of logic, which if you would read my prior post, makes no logical sense.

On another thread we were talking about empathy, and it got me to thinking. (I was at the supermarket and needed something to think about.)

Maybe Golden Rule type empathy isn't enough. Like "I don't want to get poked in the eye so I won't poke you in the eye" doesn't actually require that I know anything about your feeling. It only needs me to know MY feeling, and then have the self-discipline not to do that thing. 

Real empathy might mean that we understand something of that other person's lifeworld, even if it is unlike our own. Then it's likely that their choices would be revealed as extremely logical. At that point it might be less easy to pass judgment.

---

It is a matter to me, our species willing to question social norms and be willing to give up on bad data.

Have you read anything by the psychoanalyst Adam Phillips? He questions the social norm that logic is important in life. Have you taken the time to question this one?

[Brian37]

But in terms of logic, which if you would read my prior post, makes no logical sense.

On another thread we were talking about empathy, and it got me to thinking. (I was at the supermarket and needed something to think about.)

Maybe Golden Rule type empathy isn't enough. Like "I don't want to get poked in the eye so I won't poke you in the eye" doesn't actually require that I know anything about your feeling. It only needs me to know MY feeling, and then have the self-discipline not to do that thing. 

Real empathy might mean that we understand something of that other person's lifeworld, even if it is unlike our own. Then it's likely that their choices would be revealed as extremely logical. At that point it might be less easy to pass judgment.

---

It is a matter to me, our species willing to question social norms and be willing to give up on bad data.

Have you read anything by the psychoanalyst Adam Phillips? He questions the social norm that logic is important in life. Have you taken the time to question this one?

I think there are plenty of atheists, not just me, but plenty on this site, who have been through our own trauma. I know I have. Watching my late mother take her last breath in the nursing home was no picnic. Nobody goes through the exact same nanosecond to nanosecond cloned carbon copy life. But all humans go through the same experiences of love, happiness, sadness, stress, and trauma, to different degrees. There is no human who has a perfectly stress free life where everything is a hollywood movie.

Nobody, certainly not I, are seeking to kick puppies or  barbecue kittens. But facts do matter, and so does logic. If we always clung to the past, you wouldn't be typing your post here. 

But if you want me to use a metaphor Dorothy was the skeptic and leader in the Wizard Of Oz.

[chimp3]