"Defeating Trump is more important than all of us"

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Whoever wins in November, I think you lot missed a golden opportunity to get behind John Hickenlooper early on. I don’t know anything about his background or policies, but electing him would do quite a lot to restore America’s standing in the world - if a country has the balls to elect a ‘President Hickenlooper’ there’s no telling WHAT lengths it’ll go to in order to  achieve its ends.

You’d once again be respected and feared.

Boru

[Chad32]

One thing we should all keep in mind, is whoever got that strong fourth spot.

[Rev. Rye]

If Biden takes office, it isn't really solving the problem of money in politics, or healthcare. It's just kicking the can down the road. Vote blue, no matter who, is the defeatist attitude that's left the dem party being a center right party, and us having no left party.

Obviously some people disagree with me, but I just feel like there's only one right choice to make, and it's not Dementia Joe.

Of course it's just kicking the can down the road. Given the choice between actually trying to solve these issues and kicking it down the road, the choice is clear.

The problem is there's a very good chance that that won't be the choice we have to make in November. If the choice is just kicking the can down the road and adamantly opposing any attempts to move the can an inch because it's all a power play to them, just kicking the can is clearly the lesser evil.

You can argue Biden can't win because he doesn't have that much charisma and has even more baggage than Hilary. I think you'd have a point there. But like it or not, if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, Biden would be the only person keeping us from four more years of Trump. You may also say that Biden's administration would just be a watered-down version of the Obama administration that's destined to end up as more of a wash than that. That's also very likely. You would have to be a fool to expect that it could possibly be any worse than what Trump is doing.

Look, next week, the Illinois primary's going to come up and I fully intend to vote for him, and I really hope I get a chance to vote for him a third time in November (first time was in 2016). If that doesn't happen, I know what the stakes are. I know Biden's woefully inadequate, but sticking to my guns and insisting on the candidate who lost would be the worst possible thing to do at that point. Sticking to your guns when you don't have any bullet and your opponents are fully loaded can only end so well:

[Chad32]

If the system won't fix itself, best to let it break down, so it's forced to change. Pretty much what should have happened in 2008, except the government decided to funnel money into dying banks and companies, and not remove the people who broke the economy. Rather, keep kicking the can down the road until the bubble bursts again, and it's someone else's problem. The debt is the same way. We're not fixing it. We're just rising the ceiling, and kicking the damn can.

[LastPoet]

Raising up an antagonist raises suspicions on the protagonist you want elected.

I would advise my US fellows to look at every party government program and decide on that. Ya guys have only 2 so that would be easier. we have like 6 programs to consider on legislative elections, our president has as much power as the queen of England, except that he takes alot of selfies with most of the populace #portuguesethatnevertookaselfiewiththepresident

Best go by objective goals and by reading every party propositions and decide on that. Aren't parties required to officially post a government program for the legislature over the puddle?

[EgoDeath]

Your conservative apologist arguments aren't going to fly with me. Just saying.

As much as I'm on your side here Fierce, when we throw the "you're using conservative arguments" argument against any Dem we disagree with, it doesn't help us, and only divides the party further. I agree with you 100%. The people clearly wanted Hillary and the EC gave us Trump instead. But it doesn't help us to alienate the Dems who think otherwise.

The important things is that we, as Democrats (especially the ones in the swing States), get to the voting booth on voting day. I don't want Biden, to be honest, but I'll take him over Trump. And I think getting Trump out of office before he can do any irreversible damage is more important than "sticking to your guns" and refusing to vote come November just because the candidate you liked didn't make it through.

One thing you have to give to the Republicans is they stick together no matter who their candidate is. Hell, even the conservatives who hated Trump made sure to vote for him when the time came. Democrats need to have that same type of blind loyalty, in many ways.

That's what bugs me about Democrats the most - we don't stick together. The left cannibalizes itself in many ways that the right just doesn't. It happens, sure. But not nearly on the level that it seems to happen on the left. And that's been our downfall in many ways.

What helps is all of us choosing to back the Dem nominee come November. What doesn't help is insulting one another because you think this Democrat "isn't progressive enough" or this one is wrong about this or that... Who cares? Let's all just vote D and get Trump out of office.

[strawdawg]

Conservative apologist arguments? Ok. Guess I'm just the crazy conspiracy guy here, that thinks there was fuckery going on with the primary in 2016, just like there's fuckery going on now, and I just need to fall in line when the only candidate who actually cares about my vote doesn't get the nomination?

I would like to see Trump out of office but the Democratic choices are weak. I can't see any of them beating Trump.

[EgoDeath]

Conservative apologist arguments? Ok. Guess I'm just the crazy conspiracy guy here, that thinks there was fuckery going on with the primary in 2016, just like there's fuckery going on now, and I just need to fall in line when the only candidate who actually cares about my vote doesn't get the nomination?

I would like to see Trump out of office but the Democratic choices are weak. I can't see any of them beating Trump.

Sanders will beat Trump. Biden most likely will not. If Biden becomes the nominee, which that's the direction we seem to be going in, we'll have another four years of Trump.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Your conservative apologist arguments aren't going to fly with me. Just saying.

It's not conservative apologetics it's realism

[EgoDeath]

Your conservative apologist arguments aren't going to fly with me. Just saying.

It's not conservative apologetics it's realism

I don't think it's helpful to label arguments as "liberal apologetics" or "conservative apologetics"... I am more concerned with how logical an argument is rather than whether liberals or conservatives tend to use the specific argument. It only serves to further divide Democrats and liberals and doesn't really help us in any way.

So, did Hillary push a lot of people toward Trump? Yeah, I'd probably say so. But, so what? I think the more important thing is we all vote Democrat this year.