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Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
#11
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
(February 18, 2011 at 9:57 pm)theVOID Wrote: Of course there is a difference, Being to the right doesn't imply anything about your social leanings, Right wing just tends to be smeared by fascist Christian conservatives.

That Michele Bachmann is a BITCH - What a fucking phony libertarian, she's against people's right to protest...

The more I read Void the more I like him
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#12
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

Quote:The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt


I see #'s 1,3,4,6,7,and 9-13 as bulwark positions of the fascist right.

#2 is a special case. They are all for "human rights" when we can use it as a weapon against our enemies but when it comes to America well, frankly, they're full of shit and always have an excuse why it doesn't apply here. If North Korea locked someone up forever without trial they'd be on their high-fucking horse about how evil North Korea is. But, Guantanamo Bay? That's apparently "different."

#5 is mainly true although they will trot out a few well-known female faces ( you named one of the two most obnoxious cunts, Void, Palin is the other) in order to give their base something to jerk-off to.

#8 they would if they could and never stop trying.

and #14, many believe that they have attained that goal as well.
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#13
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
(February 18, 2011 at 10:40 pm)Minimalist Wrote: http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

We're going to equate fascist and right wing now? What about left wing fascists? That list applies to them just as much as the right.

Quote:
Quote:The 14 Characteristics of Fascism
by Lawrence Britt

I see #'s 1,3,4,6,7,and 9-13 as bulwark positions of the fascist right.

And the Fascist left. Fascist being the key word.

Quote:#2 is a special case. They are all for "human rights" when we can use it as a weapon against our enemies but when it comes to America well, frankly, they're full of shit and always have an excuse why it doesn't apply here. If North Korea locked someone up forever without trial they'd be on their high-fucking horse about how evil North Korea is. But, Guantanamo Bay? That's apparently "different."

Right, Guantanamo bay is complete bullshit. Again, this is indicative of fascism, not a statement about being left or right.

Quote:#5 is mainly true although they will trot out a few well-known female faces ( you named one of the two most obnoxious cunts, Void, Palin is the other) in order to give their base something to jerk-off to.

And NONE of that is exclusively (or indicative of) the right, it applies to Fascism in general. I'm pretty sure our right wing party in NZ has more women than the centrist Labor party - That is because unlike the US we don't have a huge collection of christians and conservatives with an authoritarian mean streak.

Quote:#8 they would if they could and never stop trying.

They would try in either left or right wing nations, South America is a prime example of that.

Quote:and #14, many believe that they have attained that goal as well.

They aren't exclusively property of the right either, look at Chavez, prime example of hard-left vote rigging.

Of all the one that seem particularly 'right wing' it would be #10, but not because 'organised Labour threatens fascist governments' (because that implies that the only reason you would be against unions is because it threatened power - not the case, particularly if you aren't a right wing fascist) rather Labour unions have the potential to raise the value of labour beyond the point where it is economically viable to employ as many people - What you tend to get in those circumstances is less people (especially in future employment projections) earning more individually and around the same amount collectively.

Seriously, you've falsely equated Fascism with Right wing, no doubt it's all the nutters in the USA who've tainted your vision.
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#14
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
Quote:What about left wing fascists?


We don't have much of a problem with them...if they exist...at the moment. The "left" gets hung with the tag "socialist" or "communist."

When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis




I see nothing to suggest that Lewis was incorrect.
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#15
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
(February 19, 2011 at 12:42 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:What about left wing fascists?

We don't have much of a problem with them...if they exist...at the moment. The "left" gets hung with the tag "socialist" or "communist."

You don't have a problem, but a great deal of south america, Hungary and other eastern European nations have a problem with them. Fascism and Socialism/Communism aren't mutually exclusive, it's classically portrayed as mostly right-wing thing, but that is only on the 1 dimensional left/right scale, with the authoritarian/libertarian aspect considered it's either left or right along with extreme authoritarianism and a collectivist attitude (which is more prominent in socialism to begin with).

Quote:When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. -Sinclair Lewis

Sure, it would make the fascists more appealing to patriots, the religious and other plainly irrational positions where the crowd mentality sets in strong, but being to the right neither means you are ultra patriotic or religious. America has a disproportionate amount of ultra patriotic bigoted religious folk on the right, that skews perspectives a bit.

Quote:I see nothing to suggest that Lewis was incorrect.

He wasn't wrong about America, but if he'd said that about Russia after Lenin's death when their authoritarian streak started he would have been wrong.
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#16
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
The only problem I have with the libertarian movement in America is how they've been co-opted by the Republican Party. The Republicans use their vote to get into office and then promptly ignore them when it comes time to make policy.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#17
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
The tea party movement aren't really libertarians to begin with, but they're generally better than the standard conservative bs. I just hope Ron Paul can catch their attention and bring them into his fold.
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#18
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
(February 19, 2011 at 12:03 pm)theVOID Wrote: The tea party movement aren't really libertarians to begin with, but they're generally better than the standard conservative bs. I just hope Ron Paul can catch their attention and bring them into his fold.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that one. I have been watching the t-party closely and I must say I find it hard to see ANY difference between them and establishment neo-cons.

They still claim anyone not like them are communists or socialists
Their ranks are swelled with racists (not all t-baggers are racist)
They stand for huge tax cuts to the top rich 1%
They talk more about guns than platform, or use gun elusions when discussing platforms
They say the same old "lamestream media" crap the neo-cons say, but dont consider Fox the same.
They support the same imperialism that neo-cons support

When the t-baggers got elected..the first thing they did in office was try to ban abortion, even though they said they would focus on jobs...right off the bat they broke their promises.

All the t-baggers are is the usual conservative clap trap to get votes, then when they get elected it is back to the usual neo-con business.

Quote:What about left wing fascists?

We call those communists and soviets..and yes, they exist. Stalin was more inline with Hitler, if not for a few social views, their veiw on totalitarian govt was damn near equal.
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#19
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
Oh the joys of social engineering.

On prank call, Wis. governor discusses strategy.

Walker thought he was talking to one of the Koch brothers & spilled the beans on his union-busting plans.

Quote:The remarks showed Walker's private relationship with David Koch. He and his brother, Charles, own Koch Industries Inc., which is the largest privately-owned company in America and has significant operations in Wisconsin.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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#20
RE: Wisconsin Protests: State Police Pursue Democratic Lawmakers Boycotting Vote
Gentlemen, you can't fight here! This is the WAR room!

Snark aside, I believe that the epic struggle today is not between right and left wing, which have more to do with economic policies, but between authoritarians and libertarians.

It doesn't help that a great many authoritarian, fascist-like republicans claim to be libertarian (case in point - tea-partiers railing on abortion instead of jobs, government, etc,.).

If anything, there needs to be a unification between left wing and right wing libertarians. If you support personal freedom of your body, to smoke what you want, to control your reproductive cycle, you're libertarian.

If you wish to control others, regulate their behavior, you're a authoritarian.

These are by definition.

While I believe in government as a tool to regulate the markets and ensure fair competition, restrain environmental damage (the government is all of us, therefore we must act as a whole to preserve our environment within reason), etc,.

Government should not regulate my behavior and actions as a citizen except within criminal confines. Government should not poke it's head into my home and spy on me. Government should not hold areas where our consitution is suspended, secret or overt (Guantanamo Bay, I'm looking at you).

While the right and the left wing disagree on social policy, like a safety net for people who cannot obtain employment but are looking for work (I still believe in the hard working man, because I am the descendant of a familial line of them), and where our taxes go to, allying with each other against fascism would improve our situation dramatically.

Such a shame, though, that a great many "republicans" will not see eye to eye with their democrat brethren, who are in the midst of running away because they can't stomache deciding whether they believe in personal freedom or government control.
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