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That Gay Thread
#41
RE: That Gay Thread
At work.

(July 27, 2020 at 12:33 am)Cherub19 Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 12:16 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Are you willing to anwer questions with simple 'Yes' or 'No' answers?

Coffee

Yes.

Swell

So, for as long as it lasts.

Tell me Dear Cherubb.

Were there LGBTQ people in existence before the 20 Th century?
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#42
RE: That Gay Thread
🍭♦ 卄Oω đί∂ ά 𝑔คⓨ ţⓗ尺𝑒𝐀D T𝕦𝐑几 𝕚𝓝𝕋𝓸 ⓐ 𝒇ᗝŇᵗ t𝒽ᖇ𝐄𝒶𝓓?! 💙🐨
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#43
RE: That Gay Thread
(July 27, 2020 at 12:39 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

(July 27, 2020 at 12:33 am)Cherub19 Wrote: Yes.

Swell

So, for as long as it lasts.

Tell me Dear Cherubb.

Were there LGBTQ people in existence before the 20 Th century?

Hmmm, I recommend you concentrate on your work for now and then engage me in discussion when you aren’t preoccupied with work. The reason I say this is because if you carefully read what I’ve just written prior to your latest question, you will see that I’ve answered this point quite plainly. Btw, it’s nearly 10 PM on the West Coast, I wonder where you are located or what kind of job you have to be working so late.

At any rate, in the interest and spirit of discussion, I shall answer your question again: the LGBTQ did not exist as a community and identity prior to the mid-20th century. Do not confuse that with the existence of homosexual behavior and feelings, the only difference being prior to the artificial construction of the LGBTQ community and identity, homosexuality was an incidental attribute, never the basis for someone identifying him or herself as part of a community. An overlooked indication of this fact is that LGBTQ is an acronym that has been modified considerably since its relatively recent arrival on the scene. Designating a community with an acronym is a radically new development that has no precedent whatsoever.
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#44
RE: That Gay Thread
At work.

(July 27, 2020 at 1:01 am)Cherub19 Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 12:39 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Swell

So, for as long as it lasts.

Tell me Dear Cherubb.

Were there LGBTQ people in existence before the 20 Th century?

Hmmm, I recommend you concentrate on your work for now and then engage me in discussion when you aren’t preoccupied with work. The reason I say this is because if you carefully read what I’ve just written prior to your latest question, you will see that I’ve answered this point quite plainly. Btw, it’s nearly 10 PM on the West Coast, I wonder where you are located or what kind of job you have to be working so late.

At any rate, in the interest and spirit of discussion, I shall answer your question again: the LGBTQ did not exist as a community and identity prior to the mid-20th century. Do not confuse that with the existence of homosexual behavior and feelings, the only difference being prior to the artificial construction of the LGBTQ community and identity, homosexuality was an incidental attribute, never the basis for someone identifying him or herself as part of a community. An overlooked indication of this fact is that LGBTQ is an acronym that has been modified considerably since its relatively recent arrival on the scene. Designating a community with an acronym is a radically new development that has no precedent whatsoever.

So... did not exist as a 'Comunity'?

Okay then.

What, pray tell, were the Spartans and the Atheniens doing?

To beging with just a couple of groups.

Cheers.
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#45
RE: That Gay Thread
I love the Muslim gay community.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#46
RE: That Gay Thread
(July 27, 2020 at 1:04 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

So... did not exist as a 'Comunity'?

Okay then.

What, pray tell, were the Spartans and the Atheniens doing?

To beging with just a couple of groups.

Cheers.

Are you suggesting the ancient Spartans and Athenians were nothing but a community of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgenders and queers? Pardon me, but that’s what it seems like you are trying to say in your polemical question to me. At any rate, I am well aware of the fact that certain cultures and societies in history (and even today) celebrated the homosexual tendency and were a lot more prominent in expressing it in contrast to most others. But that is not what I mean when I say homosexuals were never viewed as, nor did they ever view themselves, as being a community based on their peculiar sexual orientation and practices, prior to the mid-20th century. The very word homosexual is a testament to this fact. It wasn’t coined until the late 19th century. If you are arguing that the LGBTQ has existed as a community since the Bronze Age or even before that, then you should consider the fact that this community apparently didn’t even have a name to appropriately describe them.
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#47
RE: That Gay Thread
At work.

(July 27, 2020 at 1:16 am)Cherub19 Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 1:04 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: So... did not exist as a 'Comunity'?

Okay then.

What, pray tell, were the Spartans and the Atheniens doing?

To beging with just a couple of groups.

Cheers.

Are you suggesting the ancient Spartans and Athenians were nothing but a community of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgenders and queers? Pardon me, but that’s what it seems like you are trying to say in your polemical question to me. At any rate, I am well aware of the fact that certain cultures and societies in history (and even today) celebrated the homosexual tendency and were a lot more prominent in expressing it in contrast to most others. But that is not what I mean when I say homosexuals were never viewed as, nor did they ever view themselves, as being a community based on their peculiar sexual orientation and practices, prior to the mid-20th century. The very word homosexual is a testament to this fact. It wasn’t coined until the late 19th century. If you are arguing that the LGBTQ has existed as a community since the Bronze Age or even before that, then you should consider the fact that this community apparently didn’t even have a name to appropriately describe them.

Well we can't very well expect the classical Greeks to be using modern parlance. On that we can agree.

However, we do seem to be in agreement that (Again to begin with) the classical Greeks did accept such behavior within their culture/society.

No, I am not going to quibble semantics with your self.

So, since "Batting for the same team" we acknowledge was a 'Thing' oh so long ago. That leavs your assertion rather lacking, does it not?

As for "They didn't have a name for it"? The very fact that we egen use the Latin to describe such puts paid to that sillyness.
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#48
RE: That Gay Thread
(July 27, 2020 at 1:35 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

Well we can't very well expect the classical Greeks to be using modern parlance. On that we can agree.

However, we do seem to be in agreement that (Again to begin with) the classical Greeks did accept such behavior wituin their culture/society.

No, I am not going to quibble semantics with your self.

So, since "Batting for the same team" we acknowledge was a 'Thing' oh so long ago. That leavs your assertion rather lacking, does it not?

I’m afraid not. All you’ve done is manufacture a straw man argument and then proceed to refute it without bothering to understand, or perhaps deliberately misrepresenting, what I am clearly trying to say: homosexuals never existed as a community based on their sexual orientation before the mid-20th century. Simple. Straightforward.

I have never denied the existence of homosexuality in ancient times, that would be quite ludicrous if I did. Nor did I ever comment on how it was historically viewed by certain ancient cultures and populations, either positively or negatively.
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#49
RE: That Gay Thread
At work.

No, dear Tosser, I am understanding your semantics thoroughly.

That your argument currently seems to rely upon 'The words' not existing is, to me, very lacking.

Do you have anything else?

Cheers.
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#50
RE: That Gay Thread
(July 27, 2020 at 1:44 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

No, dear Tosser, I am understanding your semantics thoroughly.

That your argument currently seems to rely upon 'The words' not existing is, to me, very lacking.

Do you have anything else?

Cheers.

The point is you have thus far failed to prove the existence of the LGBTQ as a community prior to the 20th century. The moment you prove the existence of such a community, my argument is invalidated, and the discussion over a word or name to describe that community becomes moot. Until then, my assertion that the LGBTQ community that exists today is a 20th century development stands. When I say we find no name or word to describe this community that allegedly existed before the 20th century (which is your position) is an auxiliary point, which incidentally hasn’t been disproved either. But the substance of my argument can only be refuted if you present evidence that this LGBTQ community did exist in history. Moreover, you should also prove that this community existed continuously. Hypothetically, if you present evidence that what we call the LGBTQ today existed as a community from isolated instances in ancient history but that its existence is not unbroken and not continuous, the question will arise how is it possible that a community has gaps in its history where it altogether ceased to exist. But we will cross that bridge when we come to it, that is, if we ever come to it, which I am confident we won’t.
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