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Isnt Atheism just Marxism
#31
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
Actually, it is religion that is very similar to Marxism/ Communism. We could even say that religion is communism on steroids.
Let’s look at some similarities:

banning and burning books Already in Acts 19: 17-19 it is mentioned the burning of books in the name of Jesus. Then we have the Church’s Index Librorum Prohibitorum where the Church has for centuries banned certain books and punished people who would read them. On July 12, 1562, the church burned almost all the books of the Mayan civilization in Central America, causing terrible damage to that civilization. Or just take Spinoza: Catholic Church banned all of Spinoza's books, and many were burned by Protestant reformers and he was excommunicated by Jews. And continued banning books well into 20th century like the case of Jesuit priest and paleontologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin whose books were banned from publication during his lifetime.


religion persecutes other religious people much worse than communists. As soon as the Roman emperor Theodosius I introduced Christianity as the official religion in Rome, he also immediately banned other religions, and began to persecute non-Christians, ie pagan inhabitants of the Roman Empire who still worshiped the Roman gods. Violent baptisms and the destruction of cultures are the norm for Christians, as when in 1562 they burned almost all the books and thousands of pictures of the Mayan civilization. Of course, there are also witch hunts. From the 4th to the 20th century, it was a tradition for Christians to attack and kill Jews on Good Friday under the leadership of the clergy and other clergy. For centuries, the Catholic Church has called for the killing of Jews, calling them "Christ-killers." Pope Clement I blamed the Jews for the reason why Nero persecuted Christians. St. Augustine said that the true image of the Jews was that of Judas Iscariot, that they were traitors and murderers of Jesus. St. Justin Martyr also blamed the Jews for the persecution of Christians. Pope Innocent III also blamed the Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus and said they should be slaves without land.
In the breve Quod aliquantum of March 1791, addressed to the French bishops in the National Assembly, Pius VI condemned the idea that one cannot be discriminated because of his or her religion.
And of course, Muslims today in Pakistan regularly burn Christian houses and condemn Christians to death for blasphemy, and even persecute other "wrong" Muslims. Then the Hindus who are in constant conflict with the Muslims. Jews persecute Muslims in Palestine, and so on.


against democracy say in 1791 Pope Pius VI wrote an encyclical, Quod aliquantum, to the French bishops where, among other things, he said “In the eyes of the Assembly, this monstrous law is based in the freedom and equality natural to the human being, yet can there be something more incomprehensible than setting such licentious freedom and equality? This freedom […] which the National Assembly grants humans as an inalienable inborn right is incompatible with the law set by God the Creator. After all, as St. Augustine said, human society is nothing more than only a general contract to listen to kings whose power stems not from a social contract but from God.”
Pope Gregory XVI hated democracy and was for the monarchy so much that in the 19th century he banned the introduction of railways in the Papal States for fear that it would strengthen the middle class and thus threaten his rule.
And of course, there is Christian right that in many countries wants to go back to theocracy.
Not to mention that in most Muslim countries democracy does not exist but theocracy prevails, and Muslims in democracies often rebel against democracy and want sharia.


against the freedom of speech The church always had an expression "heretic" for those who said things that did not suit the Church. Or, for example, in 1864, Pope Pius IX issued an encyclical, Quanta cura, censuring rationalism, freedom of the press, equality of religions before the law, freedom of conscience.


against biological evolution theists like to take Stalin as an example of communism, and Stalin persecuted, imprisoned, and killed thousands of biologists in the USSR because they accepted evolution.


against individual property throughout good chunk Medieval times all the peasants (serfs) in Europe did not have their own land but all the land was owned by the nobles and the Church.

cult / worship of the leader

[Image: leader.png][/b][/b]
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#32
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
(December 3, 2020 at 8:02 am)Sweden83 Wrote: Because once you have made up your mind that there is no god, or there is no need for capitalism. Then its really useless to debate it any further when one isnt open to other ideas.
People who are deists, theists or pantheists or even agnostics to some degree tend to be more open minded. So it just doesnt seem like there is any point to debate atheists about religion in same way there is no point debating a marxist of the benefits of capitalism

Atheism is not Marxism as they are two entirely different thinks.
I have "made up my mind there is no god" for the same reason you "have made up your mind there are no penguins that have started a small colony on the moon".
To be clear there s more chance of penguins with a functioning colony on the moon because there is evidence for the existence of penguins.

Marxism is seizing the means of production and distributing profits amongst the workers.

Trying to compare the two is like saying comparing a silver hammer to sense of superiority. 

Marxism has its plus points by the way but I favour a mixed economy like you get in, for example, Sweden, your country.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#33
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
(December 3, 2020 at 8:02 am)Sweden83 Wrote: Because once you have made up your mind that there is no god, or there is no need for capitalism. Then its really useless to debate it any further when one isnt open to other ideas.
People who are deists, theists or pantheists or even agnostics to some degree tend to be more open minded. So it just doesnt seem like there is any point to debate atheists about religion in same way there is no point debating a marxist of the benefits of capitalism


You're quite ill-informed.   Do some google search on various interpretations of quantum mechanics (spoiler alert: there are some ~12+ out there) and cosmology models.  There are many, many of them. Big bang, inflationary model, no-boundary model, cyclic cosmology, black hole models, so on and so forth.

It's actually other way around: Theists have yet to provide other than guy-in-the-sky model.

To help my theist friends in that department, I once proposed to them an alternative unicorn-fart model under which there is an innocent supernatural unicorn that exists who, whenever it farts, produces a universe.  But for some reason they didn't like. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted the supernatural unicorn not to be innocent but an all omnipresent omniscient omnipotent male unicorn.  Well, that doesn't really leave a lot of room for "openness to other ideas" or does it?
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#34
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
I'm open to rational ideas.

It's the irrational ones that I'm closed off to.

I'm also open to compelling evidence. The more compelling the better.

My mother told me about how 5 other cultures have had flood myths similar to Noah's ark and this to her was evidence that some kind of flood must have happened.

I asked...
"Was it five different floods or just the one BIG one ?"
"If it's just the one, then the first story must be the real one and the others are copies. So the gods in that first story must be the real ones and the rest are copies."

"Do you really think they gathered 2 of every animal from all over the world ?"
"How long do you think that might take ? I mean they spent most of their time building the large boat. Did they travel all over north and south america picking up 2 of every animal they could find ? Grizzly bears, anacondas, condors. I mean they must have been the first to discover these brand new continents, but just never mentioned it. Did they build a smaller ark to sail across the oceans to gather these animals up first ?"

Oh ya and there is no evidence of a world wide flood. These are stories passed down over the ages. Nothing more.

I would agree that it's useless to debate an atheist about something that doesn't exist.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#35
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
Happy this idiot got banned. Seriously, what's with the inane OPs?
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#36
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
(December 7, 2020 at 7:34 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Happy this idiot got banned.  Seriously, what's with the inane OPs?

Poster was inane...that's what he had to offer.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#37
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
(December 3, 2020 at 8:02 am)Sweden83 Wrote: Because once you have made up your mind that there is no god, or there is no need for capitalism. Then its really useless to debate it any further when one isnt open to other ideas.
People who are deists, theists or pantheists or even agnostics to some degree tend to be more open minded. So it just doesnt seem like there is any point to debate atheists about religion in same way there is no point debating a marxist of the benefits of capitalism

Its true what you say, but at the same time, atheists can be converted.
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#38
RE: Isnt Atheism just Marxism
(December 21, 2020 at 2:22 pm)Prycejosh1987 Wrote:
(December 3, 2020 at 8:02 am)Sweden83 Wrote: Because once you have made up your mind that there is no god, or there is no need for capitalism. Then its really useless to debate it any further when one isnt open to other ideas.
People who are deists, theists or pantheists or even agnostics to some degree tend to be more open minded. So it just doesnt seem like there is any point to debate atheists about religion in same way there is no point debating a marxist of the benefits of capitalism

Its true what you say, but at the same time, atheists can be converted.

It is not true what he says.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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