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What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 11:56 am
Do you often hear it asked of you, "What would convince you to believe/join a church"? I was thinking about this today and I have the answer for myself and I was wondering what people thought of it. Or what other people's personal standard of conversion is.
I think, if someone came to my door or I met someone trying to convince me to join their religion, I'd only benefit if there was a psychology-based method to spirituality(like, meditation or deep motivation work from New Age) or a community worth engaging with. I am a simple man with simple needs, my day to day doesn't worry about what is going to happen to me after I die, and I am committed to finding my own purpose in life and finding fulfillment in my own way. If the religion I am being approached with has any rules or standards that are in any way repressive, restrictive, or weighted against looming punishment, then they need to convince me how or why those rules benefit me in this life, without trying to tell me the before- and afterlife stories. I don't care what will happen to me after I die if I don't do "xyz". If I am going to not drink alcohol ever again or if I need to not watch R-rated movies or not be a free creature with my sexuality, then they'll need to convince me why that restriction uplifts or improves my earth life. And this coming from a guy who is pretty boring and already does those things in moderation(so, I won't accept hyperbole that if I don't give them up entirely, with shame and guilt attached, then I'll just go crazy with sex and alcohol and violent, satanic horror movies; I already live an example of a life where I can do whatever I want and there's nothing I do in excess).
I know. I sound really smug. But tell me what you think of that anyway.
And tell me what your standard is. Is there any point where you could be convinced or is it all just, "Nah." ?
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:05 pm
Been there, done that.
The emphasis is to look to the future. Whatever troubles you have now will pale into nothingness in the heavenly (or Earthly paradise) realm. You have to speculate to accumulate. Don't consider 'now'. It's your future that matters. Negative now, positive future.
it's an appeal to the emotions, plain and simple.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:22 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2021 at 12:42 pm by arewethereyet.)
I didn't ever really buy into the Bible stories as being literal. Mom read to me a lot when I was a kid and I likened a lot of the Bible stories to Aesop's fables. I sort of just followed along because it's what we did. As I got older I started realizing that a lot didn't make sense. Catholic school will do that to you. I have said before that I reached a point where I questioned if I believed or if I was told I believe. I researched some other faith practices thinking that following one of them was required. In my early 20s I came to the conclusion that you don't have to believe any of it so I let it go.
Can't really see anything changing my mind that wasn't truly epic.
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:32 pm
MM to inches = .03937.....
I use that the most.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:38 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2021 at 12:38 pm by Duty.)
I can't think of one TBH....something FUCKING SPECTACULAR, put it that way, given carbon dating, the fossil record, genetic science etc etc etc.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:39 pm
My standard? I doubt I'll know until I experience it, which hasn't happened in 60 years.
The usual abstractions won't cut it.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 12:50 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2021 at 1:33 pm by Duty.)
Out of interest OP, what did it take for you to lose your LDS faith and become an atheist?
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 6:38 pm
Years ago, in a moment of malicious compliance, I instituted bible reading with my kids.
Guess which parts I went after.
I would claim the bible says X. They would claim that there is no way the bible says that. I would get a bible out and show them that it did.
So, now I have one catholic hex-wife, and two godless heathen kids, LOL.
It is often said that to become an atheist, one need do no more than read the horror of whichever religious text. What I found disturbing was that somehow, my kids had acquired/absorbed unquestioningly the happy-clappy version of jebus/pinnochio because it was somehow culturally "built in". A few bible reading classes by me demolished that. Just read what the holey babble actually says (or whichever) and think about it. There is no possible conclusion other than that said text is vile.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 6:42 pm
The last time I was in a church the mission was to get laid. She bet me a shot of leg that I couldn't sit through the whole service.
Later I explained that if you don't give a fuck about what someone is saying it's easy to ignore them.
Didn't go back for seconds, she promised more than she delivered.
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RE: What is your conversion standard?
January 16, 2021 at 6:57 pm
(January 16, 2021 at 11:56 am)Five Wrote: Do you often hear it asked of you, "What would convince you to believe/join a church"? I was thinking about this today and I have the answer for myself and I was wondering what people thought of it. Or what other people's personal standard of conversion is.
I think, if someone came to my door or I met someone trying to convince me to join their religion, I'd only benefit if there was a psychology-based method to spirituality(like, meditation or deep motivation work from New Age) or a community worth engaging with. I am a simple man with simple needs, my day to day doesn't worry about what is going to happen to me after I die, and I am committed to finding my own purpose in life and finding fulfillment in my own way. If the religion I am being approached with has any rules or standards that are in any way repressive, restrictive, or weighted against looming punishment, then they need to convince me how or why those rules benefit me in this life, without trying to tell me the before- and afterlife stories. I don't care what will happen to me after I die if I don't do "xyz". If I am going to not drink alcohol ever again or if I need to not watch R-rated movies or not be a free creature with my sexuality, then they'll need to convince me why that restriction uplifts or improves my earth life. And this coming from a guy who is pretty boring and already does those things in moderation(so, I won't accept hyperbole that if I don't give them up entirely, with shame and guilt attached, then I'll just go crazy with sex and alcohol and violent, satanic horror movies; I already live an example of a life where I can do whatever I want and there's nothing I do in excess).
I know. I sound really smug. But tell me what you think of that anyway.
And tell me what your standard is. Is there any point where you could be convinced or is it all just, "Nah." ?
And to directly answer the OP, EVIDENCE.
I do not know what would be provided, but so far none has been provided, not a jot or tittle, as the claimed saying goes. The best they can manage is that "My magic book says this or that, so it must be true". Well, read your damn book and see how risible it really is. How fundamentally immoral it is.
Given that no evidence has been provided, I have no idea what evidence might be provided. All I know for certain is that no evidence has been provided at all. Ever. For any deity.
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