trying to adopt an amoral worldview

[Rev. Rye]

A passage from Schopenhauer that's very relevant to drich's assertion, and one that, frankly, I've seen borne out in the real world more often than not:

If only a statistician could tell us first of all how many crimes are refrained from each year from religious motives and how many from other motives. There would be very few of the former. For when a man feels tempted to commit a crime, then you can depend on it that the first thing he thinks of in opposition to the idea is the punishment appointed for it and the probability of its falling upon him; the second consideration is the risk to his honour. On these two objections he will, if I am not mistaken, ponder for hours before religious considerations so much as occur to him. If, however, he gets over these two first bulwarks against crime, I believe that religion alone will very rarely hold him back.

Granted, I'd add the possibility of empathy, that other people wouldn't want wrong to be done to them, but that might be a bit more abstract and intertwined with the issues of punishment (not helped by the fact that, where he lived, capital punishment was still a thing and I'm fairly certain state-sanctioned torture was still allowed within his lifetime), but, frankly, if one isn't deterred by punishment in this life, which is clearly a thing, they're probably not going to be too deterred by the possibility of punishment in the next life, which hasn't really been demonstrated in a way that's inconsistent with hallucinations brought about by a lack of oxygen to the brain.

[Rhizomorph13]

I think OP is decidedly gone, having posted only twice so far...

[The Grand Nudger]

Doesn't matter much to the thread, there's no shortage of people to further the notion that atheists have an immorality advantage.

Wish we did, lol. If half the shit nutters believed about atheists were true we'd have long since conquered the earth. Unfortunately, when it comes right down to it, beliefs in god and about god have no effect on the presence of moral intuitions. An atheist and a theist from the same culture are very likely to share moral intuition, and even the specific contents of their moral intuitions. Nutters mistakenly believe this has something to do with a god, and so they mistakenly presume that atheists have a god line in their moral considerations.

[The Architect Of Fate]

 the trick i have observed here and other atheist platforms is to simply tell yourself there is no god over and over and over again. deny everything and all proof. because if you can kill god in your mind you can silence the heart enough to be that 'moral' person the world demands you to be.

By observing you mean made up in your own mind and imposed on other people because you real arguments or any real proofs. Not one atheist needs to deny anything or kill anyone and even the least of us here could out moral your cult of self-righteous lunatics any day of the week. Yours is a pretension of morality and nothing more.

[Rev. Rye]

There are plenty of Christians with amoral views.  Joining a church or being baptized doesn't free one of a personality disorder.  In cases of megachurch leaders and theocrats, religion justifies and amplifies the defect.

It’s weird, it’s almost like religion and morality are, in practice, separate, and that once a desire for hegemony starts to infiltrate a religion, morality tends to get thrown out the window.

And now, a quote from C.S. Lewis that’s pretty relevant:

"I am a democrat because I believe that no man or group of men is good enough to be trusted with uncontrolled power over others. And the higher the pretentions of such power, the more dangerous I think it both to the rulers and to the subjects. Hence Theocracy is the worst of all governments. If we must have a tyrant, a robber baron is far better than an inquisitor. The baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity as some point may be sated; and since he dimly knows he is doing wrong he may possibly repent. But the inquisitor who mistakes his own cruelty and lust of power and fear for the voice of Heaven will torment us infinitely because he torments us with the approval of his own conscience and his better impulses appear to him as temptations. And as Theocracy is the worst, the nearer any government approaches to a theocracy the worse it will be. A metaphysic, held by rulers with the force of religion, is a bad sign. It forbids them, like the inquisitor, to admit any grain of truth or good in their opponents."

Source: “Reply to Professor Haldane”

Also, yet another smooth-brained moment from drich when he seemed to act like being a former Christian gave him an unusual level of insight into morality, like many of us weren’t already raised into Christianity and eventually rejected it.

[The Grand Nudger]

In fairness, drich argues for moral relativism - the real eye opener there was that he has to silence his own heart to be moral. His heart is antimoral and loud about it and this has something to do with a god, lol - so he assumes that others share that sickness with him. I couldn't handle it, personally, some internal voice that always and forever told me that I was in pain every time I decided not to steal a lollipop or kick a puppy.

[Rev. Rye]

In fairness, drich argues for moral relativism - the real eye opener there was that he has to silence his own heart to be moral. His heart is antimoral and loud about it and this has something to do with a god, lol - so he assumes that others share that sickness with him. I couldn't handle it, personally, some internal voice that always and forever told me that I was in pain every time I decided not to steal a lollipop or kick a puppy.

That sounds like, at the very minimum, Pure-O OCD, and I know that because, to be honest, I have it (though not that extreme, especially not now.) And, frankly, you know what’s actually good for that, in my experience? Therapy. It works, it’s far less likely to convince you to shit on people for things they can’t control or enable authoritarian leaders than most evangelical churches, and (depending on your income, said therapist’s rates, and whether or not you’re actually paying the traditional 10% tithe to your church) may actually be cheaper in the long run.

Of course, on the worse end, he may just be flat-out admitting to being a sociopath kept in check only by his belief, in which case, well, I'll just let Rust Cohle explain it:

And, from the last time I checked, that shit can't be fixed, and probably can't even be treated, especially when it's impossible to tell whether said person is actually getting better or is just telling the doctors what they want to hear so they can go free (my mother actually did that once, although she only had narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders, and not full-on sociopathy).

[The Grand Nudger]

Scrupulosity, yeah? Immediately begs a question - if a person did experience pronounced anxiety at the thought that society might be asking them to do or be something that offends god - what, exactly, does that person think society is demanding of them....?

Are we talking about a society in mere reality actually doing or demanding something, or another layer of the delusional onion?

Do they, in a moment of doubt, do whatever that thing is? That's a sobering question...given how evil the asserted ask is likely to be, to be the subject of moral ideations in the first place. Society asks us to take off our shoes and take out the trash and none of us flinch....so we're not talking about that.....

[Rev. Rye]

I think this video might give a little insight into what they think society is demanding of them:





At this point, I’m inclined to think it’s a mix of bad faith misunderstandings (like, for instance claiming that a bill that adds gender identity to pre-existing human rights legislation is actually threatening jail time for accidentally misgendering a person) and another layer in a delusional onion. Perhaps more the latter, with it significantly enabling the former.

[The Grand Nudger]

Long one, really was a rabbit hole wasn't it, lol?