Official Mass Shooter Thread

[arewethereyet]

I wasn't arguing that they are the same thing. Just that the numbers of deaths from mass shootings is probably not as high as people might imagine, so it does help with context to add number of deaths when mentioning number of mass shootings, because just bringing up the number of mass shootings can be misleading.

Republicans don't care (or believe in many cases) that millions of people are going to suffer from climate change. Those who hate open discussion and the spirit of free speech on the other hand, take one man firing a gun in a pizza parlor which results in zero deaths, and they say, "We need mass censorship now to prevent this from ever happening again." Um, no one died. Some can take an event where no one dies, and talk about it as if it were a 9/11 type event. A couple of people get shot here in Canada and it's treated like 9/11 just happened again.

There were 387 deaths from mass shootings in the US in 2018. On average there are 33,000 gun deaths in the US per year. 387 is a tiny number compared to gun deaths overall, so I don't necessarily think mass shootings should be the main focus. Nor should so called assault rifles be the main focus, as they cause a tiny fraction of the overall gun deaths in the US.

If I knew I was guaranteed to save 387 lives a year with stop and frisk policies, I wouldn't do it because a stop and frisk policy is wrong and the opposite of freedom. If I knew I was guaranteed to save 387 lives by forcing everyone to have cameras put into their homes to be randomly monitored by police, do I save the lives, or do I let them die because I value my own right to privacy in my own home? If I'm not doing anything wrong, what do I have to worry about with cameras in my home? Am I being selfish because I value privacy over human lives? Do I have blood on my hands?

You can't compare firearm violence to privacy rights. You lose your right to privacy when you commit an act of violence. What I am talking about is vetting at time of sale. When you go to take a driver's test, they are not invading your home to get a licence. The DMV doesn't put camera's in your home because you take a driver's test. 

We should have the ability to insure anyone buying a firearm isn't mentally ill, a domestic abuser, or alcoholic. That isn't a privacy issue, that is a public safety issue. Most firearm deaths start out with a legally purchaced firearm. Our vetting process sucks.  Yesterday's shooter bought his firearms legally even after last year, his mother called police because she was concerned about his mental health, they did a temporary hold on him and took a firearm from him. But our laws couldn't stop him from the firearms he bought for yesterday's shooting.

America has had more firearm deaths in the past 40 years than the soldiers who died in Iraq/Afghanistan and Nam combined.

Getting a driver's license simply means you are old enough and in some states have taken a driving course and you usually have to pass a written and/or practical exam.  They also do a pretty useless eye exam.  There is nothing in place to stop some mentally ill person from getting a license and driving it through the wall of the DMV.  It's simply an operators' license.  They don't check your criminal history or your mental history...you do the things required and they hand you a license.  After you pay for it, of course.

You want to restrict all alcoholics from being able to purchase a firearm?  You do realize that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even in they no longer drink and haven't in decades?  So, that needs to be removed as an obstacle.  You don't seem to understand the difference between and alcoholic and a drunk.  

And, for the millionth time, while checking the mental health history and criminal history of a person is a good plan, it in no way in a sure indicator of future behavior.  There are many, many mental health issues that manifest at different times in life that aren't something that can be planned for.  Until someone shows symptoms they can't be assumed to be mentally ill or prone to mental illness.

[Brian37]

There is also the economic cost the right ignores too. On average we spend about 2 billion dollars a year on first responders, EMT, ER. ME, investigations, and also the PTSD survivors face for a lifetime.

I had a co worker at the breakfast place I worked at. She bussed tables. She was skinny when I first started working there. One day she missed work. Came to find out her cousin blew his brains out in front of her in the driveway of her house. She left that job, and a couple years later, she came in to eat. I didn't recognize her at first. She had gained a lot of weight, wich can be a symptom of PTSD. She is going to be dealing with that trauma for the rest of her life. It never goes away.

My late mother passed away from natural causes in a nursing home and I was by her side when she died. But I can tell you, even with a nautrual death, it can be traumatizing to witness. I can't imagine what that busser went through, and I hope I never am a witness to someone being shot. But we average over 30k firearm deaths per year, of all kinds. Suicide are the biggest number. Second would be domestic violence (meaning violence between people that know each other.) 3rd would be accidental. While mass shootings are lower on the list, meaning the ones that make national news, we still average almost 100 firearm deaths per day. No other westernized wealthy country comes close. 

That is not a privacy issue, that is a public epidemic and a public health emergency.

---

You can't compare firearm violence to privacy rights. You lose your right to privacy when you commit an act of violence. What I am talking about is vetting at time of sale. When you go to take a driver's test, they are not invading your home to get a licence. The DMV doesn't put camera's in your home because you take a driver's test. 

We should have the ability to insure anyone buying a firearm isn't mentally ill, a domestic abuser, or alcoholic. That isn't a privacy issue, that is a public safety issue. Most firearm deaths start out with a legally purchaced firearm. Our vetting process sucks.  Yesterday's shooter bought his firearms legally even after last year, his mother called police because she was concerned about his mental health, they did a temporary hold on him and took a firearm from him. But our laws couldn't stop him from the firearms he bought for yesterday's shooting.

America has had more firearm deaths in the past 40 years than the soldiers who died in Iraq/Afghanistan and Nam combined.

Getting a driver's license simply means you are old enough and in some states have taken a driving course and you usually have to pass a written and/or practical exam.  They also do a pretty useless eye exam.  There is nothing in place to stop some mentally ill person from getting a license and driving it through the wall of the DMV.  It's simply an operators' license.  They don't check your criminal history or your mental history...you do the things required and they hand you a license.  After you pay for it, of course.

You want to restrict all alcoholics from being able to purchase a firearm?  You do realize that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even in they no longer drink and haven't in decades?  So, that needs to be removed as an obstacle.  You don't seem to understand the difference between and alcoholic and a drunk.  

And, for the millionth time, while checking the mental health history and criminal history of a person is a good plan, it in no way in a sure indicator of future behavior.  There are many, many mental health issues that manifest at different times in life that aren't something that can be planned for.  Until someone shows symptoms they can't be assumed to be mentally ill or prone to mental illness.

So why is it Australia and Japan do a far better job and have far fewer firearm deaths? Because they have better vetting. And they don't hand out firearms like candy.

[arewethereyet]

There is also the economic cost the right ignores too. On average we spend about 2 billion dollars a year on first responders, EMT, ER. ME, investigations, and also the PTSD survivors face for a lifetime.

I had a co worker at the breakfast place I worked at. She bussed tables. She was skinny when I first started working there. One day she missed work. Came to find out her cousin blew his brains out in front of her in the driveway of her house. She left that job, and a couple years later, she came in to eat. I didn't recognize her at first. She had gained a lot of weight, wich can be a symptom of PTSD. She is going to be dealing with that trauma for the rest of her life. It never goes away.

My late mother passed away from natural causes in a nursing home and I was by her side when she died. But I can tell you, even with a nautrual death, it can be traumatizing to witness. I can't imagine what that busser went through, and I hope I never am a witness to someone being shot. But we average over 30k firearm deaths per year, of all kinds. Suicide are the biggest number. Second would be domestic violence (meaning violence between people that know each other.) 3rd would be accidental. While mass shootings are lower on the list, meaning the ones that make national news, we still average almost 100 firearm deaths per day. No other westernized wealthy country comes close. 

That is not a privacy issue, that is a public epidemic and a public health emergency.

---

Getting a driver's license simply means you are old enough and in some states have taken a driving course and you usually have to pass a written and/or practical exam.  They also do a pretty useless eye exam.  There is nothing in place to stop some mentally ill person from getting a license and driving it through the wall of the DMV.  It's simply an operators' license.  They don't check your criminal history or your mental history...you do the things required and they hand you a license.  After you pay for it, of course.

You want to restrict all alcoholics from being able to purchase a firearm?  You do realize that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even in they no longer drink and haven't in decades?  So, that needs to be removed as an obstacle.  You don't seem to understand the difference between and alcoholic and a drunk.  

And, for the millionth time, while checking the mental health history and criminal history of a person is a good plan, it in no way in a sure indicator of future behavior.  There are many, many mental health issues that manifest at different times in life that aren't something that can be planned for.  Until someone shows symptoms they can't be assumed to be mentally ill or prone to mental illness.

So why is it Australia and Japan do a far better job and have far fewer firearm deaths? Because they have better vetting. And they don't hand out firearms like candy.

Of course, ignore what I said.

And fuck off with the candy thing.  That is too stupid for words.

[Irreligious Atheist]

There is also the economic cost the right ignores too. On average we spend about 2 billion dollars a year on first responders, EMT, ER. ME, investigations, and also the PTSD survivors face for a lifetime.

I had a co worker at the breakfast place I worked at. She bussed tables. She was skinny when I first started working there. One day she missed work. Came to find out her cousin blew his brains out in front of her in the driveway of her house. She left that job, and a couple years later, she came in to eat. I didn't recognize her at first. She had gained a lot of weight, wich can be a symptom of PTSD. She is going to be dealing with that trauma for the rest of her life. It never goes away.

My late mother passed away from natural causes in a nursing home and I was by her side when she died. But I can tell you, even with a nautrual death, it can be traumatizing to witness. I can't imagine what that busser went through, and I hope I never am a witness to someone being shot. But we average over 30k firearm deaths per year, of all kinds. Suicide are the biggest number. Second would be domestic violence (meaning violence between people that know each other.) 3rd would be accidental. While mass shootings are lower on the list, meaning the ones that make national news, we still average almost 100 firearm deaths per day. No other westernized wealthy country comes close. 

That is not a privacy issue, that is a public epidemic and a public health emergency.

---

Getting a driver's license simply means you are old enough and in some states have taken a driving course and you usually have to pass a written and/or practical exam.  They also do a pretty useless eye exam.  There is nothing in place to stop some mentally ill person from getting a license and driving it through the wall of the DMV.  It's simply an operators' license.  They don't check your criminal history or your mental history...you do the things required and they hand you a license.  After you pay for it, of course.

You want to restrict all alcoholics from being able to purchase a firearm?  You do realize that an alcoholic is always an alcoholic even in they no longer drink and haven't in decades?  So, that needs to be removed as an obstacle.  You don't seem to understand the difference between and alcoholic and a drunk.  

And, for the millionth time, while checking the mental health history and criminal history of a person is a good plan, it in no way in a sure indicator of future behavior.  There are many, many mental health issues that manifest at different times in life that aren't something that can be planned for.  Until someone shows symptoms they can't be assumed to be mentally ill or prone to mental illness.

So why is it Australia and Japan do a far better job and have far fewer firearm deaths? Because they have better vetting. And they don't hand out firearms like candy.

Does the government own our bodies or should we own our own bodies? Are we slaves? I'm ok with more guns possibly leading to more suicide deaths, because this is a choice these people are making for themselves. I'm ok with legalizing all drugs and ending the drug war, even if that may make it easier for people to obtain and purposefully overdose on heroin or whatever else. I'm ok with people arguing against gun rights and I'm not saying don't do that, but when particular discussions or threads get narrowed down to the topic of "Why isn't anything being done about these weapons of war" when they account for a tiny fraction of gun deaths or "Why aren't we doing anything about mass shootings?" when they account for a tiny fraction of the gun deaths, it seems to be kind of about pulling on the heart strings with sexy headlines rather than looking at the totality of the problem. Why not push for a handgun ban since that's what's causing most of the damage?

Brian, you brought up all of the people who end up killed by domestic abusers. That's an even better reason to have a camera in every room of every house in America and everywhere else. You see the husband beating up the wife, you come and put him in jail, and then there's less of a chance that he eventually ends up shooting and killing her. You could end up saving thousands of lives this way. Are you down for this new law? What's the argument again when it comes to taking away so called assault rifles to save less than three hundred some odd lives a year, because many of those killings will just end up being committed with handguns instead. No one needs a so called assault rifle. That's the argument, right? Well, no one needs privacy either. They just want it. No one needs free speech. They just like having it. There are plenty of rights that people don't need. Now, I ask you Brian, are you willing to have cameras put in every room of your house, if it could end up saving thousands of lives when everyone is forced by law to do this, or do you value your freedom and privacy more. What is your choice?

[Brian37]

Not one fucking day. And now this.

https://www.ksla.com/2021/04/18/shooting...-hospital/

[onlinebiker]

Not one fucking day. And now this.

https://www.ksla.com/2021/04/18/shooting...-hospital/

I blame Biden.......

.....





....
And before anyone gets bent out of shape about this -- just remember all the blame that Brian laid on the last president --- for everything local, national, abroad - and intergalactic ---- up to and including his flare up of hemorrhoids...


Turnaround is fair play.


Suck it up basementboy....

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Condolences to you Yanks.

You folks are popping each other off now at a better percentage rate than "Mah freeedoms!" Covid spreading practices.

Fekkin' crazy.

[Brian37]

Not one fucking day. And now this.

https://www.ksla.com/2021/04/18/shooting...-hospital/

I blame Biden.......

.....





....
And before anyone gets bent out of shape about this -- just remember all the blame that Brian laid on the last president --- for everything local, national, abroad - and intergalactic ---- up to and including his flare up of hemorrhoids...


Turnaround is fair play.


Suck it up basementboy....

UM NO, Blame 40 years of Wayne La Pee Dipweed and the GOP. And where I live has nothing to do with your crappy logic. FYI, I live alone in my own house.

[onlinebiker]

At work.

Condolences to you Yanks.

You folks are popping each other off now at a better percentage rate than "Mah freeedoms!" Covid spreading practices.

 Fekkin' crazy.  

Keep in mind -- it's never as bad as they claim...

They add suicides, and justified shootings into the mix to inflate their numbers.

Honesty just isn't their thing.

[arewethereyet]

Ya missed one.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/aus...-3-killed/

Former sheriff detective - considered a domestic issue - he's still at large.

Update - he's been arrested.