Pronoun Backlash

[Silver]

Here’s why Sarah Paulson is facing backlash (and support) from Gay Twitter
gaytimes.co.uk

Twitter drama kicked off last night and Gay Twitter has been left divided after an online user tweeted the star “Put [your] pronouns in your bio, it’s not that hard.”

Paulson quickly replied to the tweet saying it wasn’t anyone’s job to tell her what to do. The star tweeted back: “It’s also not that hard for you to not tell what to do.”

A few minutes after the post was fired off, online users began rapidly calling for the cancelling of the American Horror Story actress.

Several users argued the refusal to use or include pronouns in a social media profile was transphobic. Some went as far as to suggest the actress may be a terf (trans-exclusionary radical feminist).

One online user tweeted how “disappointed” they were in Paulson and “never thought this day would come”.

As the criticism and comments built up online, some users from Gay Twitter jumped to the defence of that star pointing out Paulson’s history of preferring not to label herself.

Read further:

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Twitter user Charlie commented on the on-going situation and offered a standpoint from the trans community in a poignant thread.

They wrote: “Trans people do not care that Sarah Paulson doesn’t have pronouns in her bio, we care about the fact that we don’t have equal access to healthcare, that in the UK we don’t have equal marriage rights, that trans women of colour are at high risk of murder.”

The user also added that Paulson’s reply did no warrant the masses of hate the star was being sent her way.

“[Sarah Paulson’s] reply, in no world, justifies the disgusting (not to mention misogynistic and lesbiphobic) comments being made to her by 14 yr olds on stan Twitter. It isn’t that deep, she’s not the enemy, see the bigger picture I beg.”

While there has been no fixed overall opinion on the issue, Paulson is yet to comment on what’s happened or offer a follow-up tweet.

The inclusion of pronouns on social media pages is encouraged as it hopes to normalise the visibility of preferred pronouns which limits the risk of someone being misgendered.

Many feel this is a reasonable ask and hope that if cis-gendered people get involved will make including pronouns an unquestioned process.

However, as tweets have shown, some members of the community may not feel comfortable displaying their pronouns or may not find the expression of pronouns a top priority when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues.

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Even the gay community can be stupid. Personally, I support Paulson one hundred percent.

Posting it twice, because not every one checks out That Gay Thread and I figured this pronoun issue deserved some attention.

[arewethereyet]

I have to admit to being confused by the pronoun thing. I am not totally in the dark about current things but that is one that trips me up. So, please no "okay boomer" snark.

My niece's half sister wants to be referred to as they. That befuddles me. How many of "her" are there?

I have no idea what would be a better choice. I'm afraid due to lack of exposure this is one I am probably going to screw up...it certainly won't be due to a lack of respect.

I may have to resort to "Hey, you."

[Silver]

I have to admit to being confused by the pronoun thing.  I am not totally in the dark about current things but that is one that trips me up.  So, please no "okay boomer" snark.

My niece's half sister wants to be referred to as they.  That befuddles me.  How many of "her" are there?  

I have no idea what would be a better choice.  I'm afraid due to lack of exposure this is one I am probably going to screw up...it certainly won't be due to a lack of respect.

I may have to resort to "Hey, you."

You're not alone. I am one who rocks the boat on the pronoun issue. For one, if informed, I will respect the individual's choice to be referred to as what s/he, it, they, broken pottery piece wants to be called. On the other hand, neither do I understand the need to be referred to a pronoun other than he or she. After all, as you pointed out, a single person cannot be more than one person, to which "they" would refer in the English language. I have heard the argument that "they" is often used in literature to describe a single person, and my guess is that to what is being referred is a butchery of the English language by writers who aren't properly adhering to semantic rules. Granted, sometimes rules are meant to be broken in literature, but this pronoun case is not one of them.

Picturing Emily Gilmore trying to figure out the pronoun situation:

Lorelai: They are coming next week, too.
Emily: She and who else?
Lorelai: They. *points to daughter*
Emily: It's just your daughter there. Are her friends hiding behind her where I can't see them?
Lorelai: Yes, mom, she has multiple personality disorder now. It must be the stress of these Friday dinners.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I have to admit to being confused by the pronoun thing.  I am not totally in the dark about current things but that is one that trips me up.  So, please no "okay boomer" snark.

My niece's half sister wants to be referred to as they.  That befuddles me.  How many of "her" are there?  

I have no idea what would be a better choice.  I'm afraid due to lack of exposure this is one I am probably going to screw up...it certainly won't be due to a lack of respect.

I may have to resort to "Hey, you."

You're not alone. I am one who rocks the boat on the pronoun issue. For one, if informed, I will respect the individual's choice to be referred to as what s/he, it, they, broken pottery piece wants to be called. On the other hand, neither do I understand the need to be referred to a pronoun other than he or she. After all, as you pointed out, a single person cannot be more than one person, to which "they" would refer in the English language. I have heard the argument that "they" is often used in literature to describe a single person, and my guess is that to what is being referred is a butchery of the English language by writers who aren't properly adhering to semantic rules. Granted, sometimes rules are meant to be broken in literature, but this pronoun case is not one of them.

Picturing Emily Gilmore trying to figure out the pronoun situation:

Lorelie: They are coming next week, too.
Emily: She and who else?
Lorelie: They. *points to daughter*
Emily: It's just your daughter there. Are her friends hiding behind her where I can't see them?
Lorelie: Yes, mom, she has multiple personality disorder now. It must be the stress of that Yale education.

Accept they was once a singular pronoun in old English 

But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche  . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-hist...ular-they/

[Silver]

Stupid English language.

[arewethereyet]

You're not alone. I am one who rocks the boat on the pronoun issue. For one, if informed, I will respect the individual's choice to be referred to as what s/he, it, they, broken pottery piece wants to be called. On the other hand, neither do I understand the need to be referred to a pronoun other than he or she. After all, as you pointed out, a single person cannot be more than one person, to which "they" would refer in the English language. I have heard the argument that "they" is often used in literature to describe a single person, and my guess is that to what is being referred is a butchery of the English language by writers who aren't properly adhering to semantic rules. Granted, sometimes rules are meant to be broken in literature, but this pronoun case is not one of them.

Picturing Emily Gilmore trying to figure out the pronoun situation:

Lorelie: They are coming next week, too.
Emily: She and who else?
Lorelie: They. *points to daughter*
Emily: It's just your daughter there. Are her friends hiding behind her where I can't see them?
Lorelie: Yes, mom, she has multiple personality disorder now. It must be the stress of that Yale education.

Accept they was once a singular pronoun in old English 

But that’s nothing new. The Oxford English Dictionary traces singular back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf. Except for the old-style language of that poem, its use of singular they to refer to an unnamed person seems very modern. Here’s the Middle English version: ‘Hastely hiȝed eche  . . . þei neyȝþed so neiȝh . . . þere william & his worþi lef were liand i-fere.’ In modern English, that’s: ‘Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-hist...ular-they/

Pretty sure you mean except unless you want us to accept that "they" was once a singular pronoun.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Stupid English language.

I know right 

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Pretty sure you mean except unless you want us to accept that "they" was once a singular pronoun.

And what if I did?

[Rev. Rye]

Frankly, I’ve never really understood the point of identifying as non-binary, except maybe if you were born intersex. Refusing to accept society’s rigid gender roles makes perfect sense, but to me, rejecting gender entirely just feels like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then again, what I am well aware of is that I’m not the one who has to deal with these desires and they that do probably know something I don’t. I know some shit that’s important to me is just baffling to others, and I’ve grown to recognize that it’s the same with other people.

That said, in my writers group, I can remember one NB decided to include preferred pronouns in our usual introductions, and I decided to have a little fun with it. When my turn came, I decided my preferred pronoun was “motherfucker.” Said NB laughed.

On the subject of the singular “they,” this has quite a bit of precedent. I’ve heard it was even used in Shakespeare (although the example I’ve seen is a bit ambiguous), but it turns out it’s even older than that. It’s pre-Bard, it’s pre-Chaucer, hell, it’s from the days when we still had a dedicated letter for TH sounds. It’s just a bit younger than the plural they. Frankly, AWTY, just be thankful that your niece’s half-sister has at least latched onto a pronoun that’s at least intuitive in pronunciation. That’s more than I’ve seen online.

On the OP, I just have to say, if Sarah Paulson doesn’t feel like giving her pronouns on her Twitter, that’s her choice. Maybe she’s just comfortable with the usual “she/her” pronouns and just doesn’t see the point in specifying that she prefers the pronouns that have been the default for her for her entire life and that almost everyone will use for her anyway.

And Charlie from the hidden part of the article has a damn good point:

trans people do not care that sarah paulson doesn’t have pronouns in her bio, we care about the fact that we don’t have equal access to healthcare, that in the uk we don’t have equal marriage rights, that trans women of colour are at high risk of murder, the list goes on

They go on in this thread.

[arewethereyet]

---

Frankly, I’ve never really understood the point of identifying as non-binary, except maybe if you were born intersex. Refusing to accept society’s rigid gender roles makes perfect sense, but to me, rejecting gender entirely just feels like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Then again, what I am well aware of is that I’m not the one who has to deal with these desires and they that do probably know something I don’t. I know some shit that’s important to me is just baffling to others, and I’ve grown to recognize that it’s the same with other people.

That said, in my writers group, I can remember one NB decided to include preferred pronouns in our usual introductions, and I decided to have a little fun with it. When my turn came, I decided my preferred pronoun was “motherfucker.” Said NB laughed.

---

On the subject of the singular “they,” this has quite a bit of precedent. I’ve heard it was even used in Shakespeare (although the example I’ve seen is a bit ambiguous), but it turns out it’s even older than that. It’s pre-Bard, it’s pre-Chaucer, hell, it’s from the days when we still had a dedicated letter for TH sounds. It’s just a bit younger than the plural they. Frankly, AWTY, just be thankful that your niece’s half-sister has at least latched onto a pronoun that’s at least intuitive in pronunciation. That’s more than I’ve seen online.

---

On the OP, I just have to say, if Sarah Paulson doesn’t feel like giving her pronouns on her Twitter, that’s her choice. Maybe she’s just comfortable with the usual “she/her” pronouns and just doesn’t see the point in specifying that she prefers the pronouns that have been the default for her for her entire life and that almost everyone will use for her anyway.

And Charlie from the hidden part of the article has a damn good point:

trans people do not care that sarah paulson doesn’t have pronouns in her bio, we care about the fact that we don’t have equal access to healthcare, that in the uk we don’t have equal marriage rights, that trans women of colour are at high risk of murder, the list goes on

They go on in this thread.

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To make it more confusing, at least to me, said niece's half sister is married to a transitioning male to female and they refer to that person as their wife.  I sort of feel like I need some sort of chart or diagram so I can say the preferred words (almost said keep it straight).  To be safe I will stick with first names and skip the pronouns and/or labels.

I am so used to saying sir and ma'am regardless of age that now I worry about that being wrong.  

There are so many ways to unintentionally offend people these days.  Even the polite things I was taught and that I taught my kids can be seen as offensive.  I think I'll just stay home even if this pandemic ever ends.

[Rev. Rye]

About that wife, does she show signs of... The Man Who Never Was in either her voice or her physical appearance, or did you know her back when she was still pretending to be a man?

I'd be lying if sometimes, I find myself thinking about using the wrong pronouns about the given transperson under those circumstances, but when it happens (which isn't really that often, since it's very rare I actually meet one in the Flesh World [the NB from the previous post didn't really stay on in the group and I haven't been back since shit got real in March], I don't know much about the transpeople on this forum that they themselves don't let me know about, and, frankly, I haven't felt much of a need to talk about Elliot Page or Abigail Thorne in the past couple months), I always catch myself. Well, I don't think I've failed yet.