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Imagine this...
#41
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 5:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: No pigs ever ran down any hill.  Not for no reason, not for any reason.

Bummer. Because, regardless of the advancements we've made since ancient times concerning the treatment of epilepsy, I've always thought they were boring by comparison.

But mass pig suicide? Now that's pretty interesting. I wonder why modern medical practitioners don't try harder to work pig suicide into epilepsy treatments, y'know? That's something Jesus did, that they don't do.
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#42
RE: Imagine this...
At work.

(May 3, 2021 at 4:52 pm)Belacqua Wrote:
(May 3, 2021 at 4:10 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: So we'll put it next to another book but we'll not define a category for the books other than "They influence folk."

That's certainly not what I said.

I know you didn't say it. I posted it. Plus the post was interrupted between my innitial reply time and posting.

I'm now asking of you your opinion of the 'Value' or 'Relevance' or 'Status' insert your own word defining said book.

I offered a comparison to Shakespeare's myths. Am not sure if you think the Bible should be placed besides Harry Potter?
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#43
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 5:50 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: I'm now asking of you your opinion of the 'Value' or 'Relevance' or 'Status' insert your own word defining said book.

Kind of a big question there. 

There are a few simple points you could start with.

~ Sola scriptura literalism is new and not so interesting to me. Historical debates in which we parse out which three words in a sentence were intended to be literally true and which were parable may be interesting to historians, but not crucial to reading the Bible.

~ When we read the Bible we don't just read the Bible. It's impossible for people in our time to read it as people did when it was written. Nor is it especially desirable. The Bible is the text plus all the commentaries and uses it has been given through history. If you just read The Book of Job, for example, you're just getting started. The Book of Job today is the original text plus Blake's interpretation, and Jung's, and a hundred others.

~ It is a mistake to treat the Bible as if it were intended to be journalism, straightforward modern-type history, or a simple declarative statement of anything. It is a challenge, intended to be a difficult puzzle. It is demanding and interactive. 

Quote: I offered a comparison to Shakespeare's myths. Am not sure if you think the Bible should be placed besides Harry Potter?

People who want to insult Christianity frequently use the rhetorical device of comparing it unfavorably to children's books like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. This is simple-minded. 

Shakespeare is somewhat better, simply because Shakespeare has inspired some very deep discussion over the centuries. But it's still a genre error.
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#44
RE: Imagine this...
At work.

*Scratches head*

Okay. I'm asking for your thoughts/opinion Belaqua.

So lets imagine this. We have a libray. A huge one that holds all the different types/categories of books.

Where in this library would you place the Bible? Under which 'Heading' or definition?

EDIT: Also I just realized this may not be in the line of the thread and if do I do apologize.
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#45
RE: Imagine this...
(May 4, 2021 at 12:04 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

 *Scratches head*

 Okay. I'm asking for your thoughts/opinion Belaqua.

 So lets imagine this. We have a libray. A huge one that holds all the different types/categories of books.

 Where in this library would you place the Bible? Under which 'Heading' or definition?

EDIT: Also I just realized this may not be in the line of the thread and if do I do apologize.

I'm doing my best to answer you but you keep changing the question. Yesterday you wanted the genre. Today you wanted to know my opinion of the value, relevance, or status. Now you want the genre again.

In the Dewey Decimal System, religious books are the 200s. The Old Testament is 221 and the New Testament is 225. So that's how they are categorized. Shakespeare is in 822, English Drama.

The Bible is not the same as a novel or a play or a work of history. It is a spiritual book with literary qualities, like the Lotus Sutra. 

I would put it on the shelf with The Cloud of Unknowing, the works of Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite, and Augustine's Confessions.
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#46
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 7:43 pm)Belacqua Wrote: People who want to insult Christianity frequently use the rhetorical device of comparing it unfavorably to children's books like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. This is simple-minded. 

And people who want to avoid discussion about some argument use logical fallacies like that they are being insulted when they are not.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#47
RE: Imagine this...
At work.

Indeed. I should perhapse used Sir Terry Pratchette instead.
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#48
RE: Imagine this...
(May 4, 2021 at 1:16 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

Indeed. I should perhapse used Sir Terry Pratchette instead.

Yes, along with using this meme

[Image: insult.jpg]
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#49
RE: Imagine this...
(May 2, 2021 at 11:48 am)Jehanne Wrote: Imagine today, Sunday (or, for those reading this later, just pick another day), CNN issues a worldwide news flash at 4 PM EST announcing the following:

"President John F. Kennedy has been shot."

Shortly thereafter Anderson Cooper appears on live TV to describe the mayhem that occurred some 60 or so years ago.

What would you think?  A joke?  They are all crazy?  An alien virus???

The above scenario, however, happened just under two thousand years ago, which, today, believers and skeptics refer to as The Four Gospels.   The earliest Gospel, Mark, was composed around 70 of the common era with The Gospel of John being written sometime in the 90s, some 60 to 70 years after the execution of Jesus.  These writings (as well as others outside of the New Testament) claim many extraordinary things that Jesus supposedly did, such as walking on liquid water and raising the clinical dead back to life.

Some living during that time appear, however, to be completely unimpressed by these stories, which were never mentioned by hundreds, if not thousands, of literate human beings who could have recorded those events.  For instance, the Jewish-Roman historian, Josephus, was born in Jerusalem, the city that Jesus died in, sometime in 37 CE, but in his book on the Jewish & Roman wars, written 30 years later, Josephus never even mentions the existence of Jesus; he does mention Pilate and Ananus, the high priest.  Only some 20 years later, when writing a tome on the history of the Jews does Jesus get a brief, undisputed reference as being "called the Christ".

Clearly, Josephus was unimpressed with the stories surrounding Jesus, no doubt viewing such tales as being a "dime a dozen".  Knowing what scholars know today about all the other miracle workers who lived prior, during and after the time of Jesus should cause us to be even less impressed about the supposed "historical data".

I would think it's just CNN being CNN. After all, CNN did give us this gem below. Breaking News!

[Image: 534e6f26ecad04cb3724be62?width=1200&format=jpeg]
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#50
RE: Imagine this...
There was a video recently on youtube about Josephus by experts, on his life and how Christians forged those lines about Jesus and why Josephus never wrote them


teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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