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Current time: December 5, 2021, 1:20 pm

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Imagine this...
#21
RE: Imagine this...
At work.

Time permitting I re-read the OP.

It would definately seem to me that you were innitially 'Playing the man and not the ball' with your earlier response to Jehanne in regards to their choice of media personality .

Since then the thread seems to be steering back on tac with Jehanne's pointing out, again, of the strange derth of contemprary corroboration as such world changing affairs the book describes.

Has any one found out what happened to the 500 odd 'Zombies', by the bye? Coffee

My oar in the water, given your post Belaqua, is thus. If the Bible consists of myth and metaphor then why should it not be on the shelf besides Shakespeare instead of on the shelf besides Nagle or perhaps Newton?
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#22
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 12:52 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: If the Bible consists of myth and metaphor then why should it not be on the shelf besides Shakespeare instead of on the shelf besides Nagle or perhaps Newton?

Is it on the shelf with Nagle? Really? 

It doesn't belong on the shelf with Newton's scientific works, but he wrote huge amounts of Bible commentary, so I suppose it would be in that general section of the library.

Anyway, the Bible plays a role that is different from any of those authors' works.
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#23
RE: Imagine this...
At work.

You missed a spot there Belaqua old Bean.

I said "If the Bible is to be read as myth and metaphor thence why not place it on the shelf besides Shakespeare?"

But do tell upon which shelf you ought think the literary piece that is the Bible should be placed?
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#24
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 2:27 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

You missed a spot there Belaqua old Bean.

I said "If the Bible is to be read as myth and metaphor thence why not place it on the shelf besides Shakespeare?"

 But do tell upon which shelf you ought think the literary piece that is the Bible should be placed?

Not every book that contains myth and metaphor is in the same genre.

I suppose that if we had to put it in a category it would go with the Lotus Sutra and other works that have literary qualities but are intended and used as more than literature.
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#25
RE: Imagine this...
Maybe Josephus was anti-Christian, or just denying the truth out of hatred for Jesus's religion.
TBH; God gave a hard strike to Judaism by sending Jesus -peace be upon him- as a prophet, so I would expect a Jewish "grudge".

Jews declined in numbers, and became a "minority" when most of them converted to Christianity, so if Josephus was smart enough he will know that Jesus is a threat to his religion.

So I expect him to use the same exact tactics of "character assassination" towards the new threat;i.e Jesus peace be upon him.
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#26
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 4:50 am)WinterHold Wrote: Maybe Josephus was anti-Christian, or just denying the truth out of hatred for Jesus's religion.
TBH; God gave a hard strike to Judaism by sending Jesus -peace be upon him- as a prophet, so I would expect a Jewish "grudge".

Jews declined in numbers, and became a "minority" when most of them converted to Christianity, so if Josephus was smart enough he will know that Jesus is a threat to his religion.

So I expect him to use the same exact tactics of "character assassination" towards the new threat;i.e Jesus peace be upon him.

Yeah, it is a Jewish conspiracy. Even the Matthew gospel ends with claims that it is the Jews who are buying and hiding the truth about Jesus.

But there were other very noticeable events in the life of Jesus that many people would notice and would be hard to hide, like:

- Herod's slaughter of all the baby boys in Bethlehem
- Jesus' triumphant entry in Jerusalem, where the entire city welcomes him as their king
- Jesus casting out moneychangers from the temple (in the area about 34 football fields)
- Two earthquakes hit Jerusalem
- Supernatural darkness covers "all the land" for hours
- The sacred temple curtain tears from top to bottom
- All the dead holy men in the cemetery come out of their graves and wander Jerusalem, "appearing to many"

AND YET CONTEMPORARY HISTORIANS AND CHRONICLERS IN THE TIME OF JESUS DIDN'T WRITE ABOUT ANY OF THIS!
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#27
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 4:50 am)WinterHold Wrote: Maybe Josephus was anti-Christian, or just denying the truth out of hatred for Jesus's religion.
TBH; God gave a hard strike to Judaism by sending Jesus -peace be upon him- as a prophet, so I would expect a Jewish "grudge".

Jews declined in numbers, and became a "minority" when most of them converted to Christianity, so if Josephus was smart enough he will know that Jesus is a threat to his religion.

So I expect him to use the same exact tactics of "character assassination" towards the new threat;i.e Jesus peace be upon him.

He does mention Jesus, though, in passing, some 20 years later, which proves that Josephus was aware of Jesus' existence.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#28
RE: Imagine this...
For a man supposedly famous for his time, there is scant evidence of his presence elsewhere in historical writings.
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#29
RE: Imagine this...
(May 2, 2021 at 2:19 pm)edial Wrote: But Jesus was only popular among the common people, but very unpopular among the Jewish leadership.
They hated him intensely, but even they wrote in Talmud that Christ was doing miracles.

So the Jews and the Romans kicked in their propaganda machine and tried squashing the historical fact of Jesus Christ and slandering his name ... way too many people were leaving their synagogues and the Roman temples to follow Jesus of Nazareth.

People like Anderson Cooper (whom you mentioned) are hired to either promote or disrepute whatever news are happening.
Controlling the news is as ancient as civilization is.

Thanks,
Ed
Written even later than new magic book, and as a direct response and criticism to a religion which contended to draw it's authority from their god, their myths and legends, while getting those things hilariously and utterly wrong - and, ultimately, being censored by that religion themselves (and censoring themselves for fear of reprisal by the same).  There was no jewish exodus to christ.  I struggle to understand what you here, and winter below, could be referring to - other than forced conversions even later still.
(May 3, 2021 at 4:50 am)WinterHold Wrote: Maybe Josephus was anti-Christian, or just denying the truth out of hatred for Jesus's religion.
TBH; God gave a hard strike to Judaism by sending Jesus -peace be upon him- as a prophet, so I would expect a Jewish "grudge".

Jews declined in numbers, and became a "minority" when most of them converted to Christianity, so if Josephus was smart enough he will know that Jesus is a threat to his religion.

So I expect him to use the same exact tactics of "character assassination" towards the new threat;i.e Jesus peace be upon him.
You expect all sorts of funny shit when it comes to teh joos.

The short version of a long story, is that if the godman in magic book is our focus - there was never any such person. None of the candidates for a historical jesus fit the narrative of magic book, and, ofc, magic book doesn't exactly jive with reality. People expect too much from myths and legends. It's a story about things that were religiously important, not a news report from the roman front.

(May 2, 2021 at 11:48 am)Jehanne Wrote: The above scenario, however, happened just under two thousand years ago, which, today, believers and skeptics refer to as The Four Gospels.   

That would seem crazy if that were what happened, but it wasn't.  That's christianities establishment myth, not what happened.  Assuming that jesus was a real boy, which he wasn't,..it took 300 years for christianity to form and capture the roman state, and then more still for it to spread.  Julian Apostate was there for that turn and had plenty to say about christians and christianity as they were at the time.  It was very much a top down phenomena, wherein the cult courted the wealthy and powerful and then transformed their ideological commitments into real world authority for real world gain.  Using this, they actively recruited amongst the disaffected poor in the roman state.  Julian knew, and argued, that if the roman state would get off it's ass and do it's job, nary a christian could be found begging for cake.  Hell of a criticism for an emperor to make of his own. All of his fears regarding the effect of christianity on rome came true, though he wouldn't live to see it.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#30
RE: Imagine this...
(May 3, 2021 at 4:50 am)WinterHold Wrote: Maybe Josephus was anti-Christian, or just denying the truth out of hatred for Jesus's religion.

Given the fact that Josephus documented every wandering mendicant who claimed messiahdom in great detail, no matter how minor or how deranged, your hypotheses do not hold water. The simplest explanation is still the most likely, viz Josephus didn't talk about Yeshua bar Yosef because he didn't hear of him, likely because either a) he did not exist, or b) was so minor that even somebody as prone to gossip as Josephus didn't hear of him.
As a species, we are fucked. To the next generation, I offer my inadequate apologies.
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