[Serious] Good People

[Deesse23]

The idea is this: You are an evil person if you do not make sacrifices for the greater good.

Are you? Try to google "nuance" if you may.

[John 6IX Breezy]

The OP was also bandying about rape as well but I'm not going to follow any such comments further.

There's a reason you dislike my rape/vaccination comparison, and it's not because the argument is invalid. The two are clearly alike in all the ways that matter: They violate a person's consent, they violate a person's bodily autonomy, and they make use of coercion, force, and other means of manipulation.

Rape isn't always violent. Feminist legal scholars argue that committing fraud to procure sex is likewise rape (e.g. if you lie about being married). Others argue that violating the preconditions under which consent was given is likewise rape (e.g. removing your condom without consent).

And yet many people simply don't feel that such things are indeed rape. Perhaps for the same reasons you don't think that coercing unwanted medical treatments unto people against their will is rape-like.

[Ranjr]

When you focus on likeness between two things and ignore the stark differences in order to make a comparison, you distort truth.

"Hey, stop tailgating.  You're going to cause an accident."  

"Stop raping me!!!!"

See how crazy that sounds?  Why attempt to portray as bad people the people asking inconsiderate people to be more considerate?  You wish to protect the rights of assholes to be assholes?  Okay.

[arewethereyet]

The OP was also bandying about rape as well but I'm not going to follow any such comments further.

There's a reason you dislike my rape/vaccination comparison, and it's not because the argument is invalid. The two are clearly alike in all the ways that matter: They violate a person's consent, they violate a person's bodily autonomy, and they make use of coercion, force, and other means of manipulation.

Rape isn't always violent. Feminist legal scholars argue that committing fraud to procure sex is likewise rape (e.g. if you lie about being married). Others argue that violating the preconditions under which consent was given is likewise rape (e.g. removing your condom without consent).

And yet many people simply don't feel that such things are indeed rape. Perhaps for the same reasons you don't think that coercing unwanted medical treatments unto people against their will is rape-like.

Bold mine - 

WTF?  Full stop on the rape apologetics - read lies.

[Peebothuhlu]

The OP was also bandying about rape as well but I'm not going to follow any such comments further.

OP wrote stuff here....

 

No.

[Deesse23]

Rape isn't always violent.

The german word for rape literally contains the letters "...v i o l e n c e..."

[Belacqua]

and accompanying this is an underlying variable that I haven't been able to communicate successfully. 

You're communicating clearly. But the consensus is so strong that people aren't going to take in arguments that fall outside what's been decided.

People can do some very heartless things once they believe they are fighting for a good cause. 

We have a set of principles which we hold dear: think for yourself; question authority, don't just go with the herd. But once consensus is sufficiently reached then these no longer apply. Misrepresentation and ridicule become more than acceptable. 

I suppose part of the problem here is that my knowledge of ethics is extremely limited.

In an important sense, everybody's knowledge of ethics is extremely limited. In cases of this sort, where the limits of government coercion and bodily autonomy are being drawn, nobody is offering an argument as to why we have to draw the line just here. The consensus is so strong that no arguments are deemed necessary -- it's something people just know, and if you don't just know you're bad. We could try to figure out arguments as to why the violation of one kind of bodily autonomy is OK and one kind isn't, but no one seems willing to try that. 

For the record, I think it's almost certain that getting the vaccinations will be a good thing. I wish they were more available where I live. But as you said at the beginning, the issue is not vaccinations per se but the morality of how we enforce them. And now the thread has become an issue of how we represent people who are skeptical about them -- it's been deemed OK to misrepresent their motives.

Once a cohort has been sufficiently disapproved of, then misrepresentation is acceptable on this forum. We don't like Christians, for example, so it's OK to describe them all as science-denying people who believe in talking snakes.

[The Grand Nudger]

perhaps nothing is more evil than the person who thinks they are justified in their mistreatment of others.

Perhaps - but I can't see that notion working on a person who's considered and rejected the greater good.

[Nay_Sayer]

The OP was also bandying about rape as well but I'm not going to follow any such comments further.

There's a reason you dislike my rape/vaccination comparison, and it's not because the argument is invalid. The two are clearly alike in all the ways that matter: They violate a person's consent, they violate a person's bodily autonomy, and they make use of coercion, force, and other means of manipulation.

Rape isn't always violent. Feminist legal scholars argue that committing fraud to procure sex is likewise rape (e.g. if you lie about being married). Others argue that violating the preconditions under which consent was given is likewise rape (e.g. removing your condom without consent).

And yet many people simply don't feel that such things are indeed rape. Perhaps for the same reasons you don't think that coercing unwanted medical treatments unto people against their will is rape-like.

No. Just no.

[downbeatplumb]

If you refuse to vaccinate to protect yourself and society at large you may not be evil BUT you are selfish and unthoughtful or at best incredibly ill informed. If there had been anti -vaxxers iearlier last century to the same degree we'd still have Small pox and it is the reason we still have polio. The planet was 99% polio free, but then in a little back water anti vax rumours started and now polio is not almost gone, but coming to a country near you soon. People will die due to anti vaxers.

“The drops (polio vaccine) were designed,said these believers. Their intention and effect was genocidal. Nobody was to swallow them, or administer them to infants. Within months, polio was back...”

― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything