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Do you know WikiIslam ?
#61
RE: Do you know WikiIslam ?
(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote:
(April 16, 2022 at 4:54 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: Lol, it's called the Islamic golden age, not the Arabic Golden age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

Many famous scholars of this era weren't Arabs, such as Al-Khwarizmi (persian), who presented the first systematic solution of linear and quadratic equations.

I didn't say the Arabic golden age.
You also didn't respond to my comment's point.

However, thanks for the reply.

(February 26, 2022 at 9:10 pm)Klorophyll Wrote: The Qur'an not mentioning something doesn't mean it's against it. The Qur'an also doesn't mention that there are five daily prayers, a central tenet of Islam, which all Muslims (are supposed to) apply rigorously.

It's normal that the Koran won't mention Evolution theory. Primitive humans had forgotten much of their past and also, they were not there to witness the development of the Universe, stars, planets, life on Earth.
At some point in time (history doesn’t record this. We call it pre-history), humans started to develop a language and expressed themselves.
So, at some point in time, some human asked the big questions:
1. What am I?
2. Where do I come from?
3. Why does stuff exist?
4. Who made all this?
5. What happens when I die? What happened to my dead parents, my dead child, my dead friend?
and so on.

Who knows who that first person was.
It is clear that multiple cultures developed their own answers to these questions and so, they ended up with different religions.
Sure, most of them settled on the idea of gods, which are basically supermen or some fantastic alien lifeforms, and the most important thing: the idea of the soul.

These are the lowest hanging fruits, that any primitive human can reach and pluck out of the tree.

Things like Evolution theory, plate tectonic theory, the shape of the Earth, the internal composition of the Earth, the solar system, the periodic table of the elements and plenty more are the high hanging fruits.

On other words, all religions do not mention these things and one could claim that all religions are not against such scientific concepts.

However, if the gods are making humans and so on, then it is not nature that is doing it and therefore, religions and science do not fit together.

Quote:Non sequitur. Our species appearing "slowly" doesn't mean there is no first human. The first member of our species to ever appear can be the first human, what's the problem with that?


The problem with that is that you are going to have to explain it to biologist.

It is hard to determine who is the first human since in terms of biology, a human doesn't have an exact definition.
All that a biologist can do is give a rough description of what a human is.
We if are going to use DNA, then which sections of DNA make us human? What happens when those sections are slightly changed?

The same concept arises with words such as short and long. They don’t have an exact definition.
If you have a bunch of sticks of different lengths and you order them from short to long, at what point does the transition takes place from short to long?

And if you are claiming that there was a first human, who were his family members? Were they human as well?
Lol First Human .... Hehe
"Change was inevitable"


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#62
RE: Do you know WikiIslam ?
(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: I didn't say the Arabic golden age.
You also didn't respond to my comment's point.

You made the ridiculous claim that Islam is responsible for "killing" the Golden age, any textbook on Islamic history will tell you that this era ended with the Mongol conquests, and the subsequent destruction of libraries in Baghdad (namely the famous House of Wisdom), without mentioning executing a caliph and destroying entire cities...

All this meant there was no more cultural or economic flourishing. You just can't build a civilization and advance human knowledge if your own homeland is subjected to foreign invasion.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: Who knows who that first person was.
It is clear that multiple cultures developed their own answers to these questions and so, they ended up with different religions.
Sure, most of them settled on the idea of gods, which are basically supermen or some fantastic alien lifeforms, and the most important thing: the idea of the soul.

Look, there are countless theories out there about how religion appeared/evolved. In the end, it doesn't matter.
None of this tells you anything about the truth-value of any religious claim. You might actually be committing a genetic fallacy

(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: On other words, all religions do not mention these things and one could claim that all religions are not against such scientific concepts.

However, if the gods are making humans and so on, then it is not nature that is doing it and therefore, religions and science do not fit together.

It's not really difficult to reconcile modern science with religion, you know. Maybe some extreme ideas like young earth creationism are problematic, but this only concerns the biblical account. The Islamic account is different in many respects. You can even find ambitious exegesis of some Qur'anic verses agreeing with very recent findings in cosmology. 

(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: The problem with that is that you are going to have to explain it to biologist.

It is hard to determine who is the first human since in terms of biology, a human doesn't have an exact definition.

Well I think the biologist's foremost task is to accurately define a human. If one just keeps changing definitions to avoid discussing the serious issues, then clearly we will never go anywhere with this.

And it seems you forgot something: however you define the word "human", you will necessarily have a first human fitting this definition.

Frankly, I can't believe people here still doubt there is a first human, it's just .. dumb.

(April 18, 2022 at 9:26 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: And if you are claiming that there was a first human, who were his family members? Were they human as well?

His family members could be slightly sub-human, for the lack of a better word. It's commonplace that parents give birth to brighter human beings than themselves (be it physical or mental ability), the same thing could have happened at the very beginning of the human species.
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#63
RE: Do you know WikiIslam ?
The ummah had long since become a retrograde collection of ruinous warring states long before the mongols, or the timurids, and certainly by the 1400s.

The much ballyhooed scientific golden age of islam was largely centered in persia, as the spoils of war. It's a fun relationship..as, had so much work not been collected and then written in a single language in a durable and transportable way, then it would not have been widely distributed throughout spain, and from spain..the the rest of the west. Somebody had to carry the torch when islam dropped the ball, meh. Probably one of the single largest lost opportunities for islamic thought, including islamic religion.

Image if it had been otherwise? It would be nutballs in the west whose society was premised on believing in magic and magic books to the exclusion of facts. We'd be the ones with 3rd world settlements. Poor as dogshit.
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