Jews vs. Palestine

[Fake Messiah]

Trivializing the Arab-Israeli conflict as something like a Hatfield McCoy feud bespeaks of no serious understanding in the depth of the issues involved, [...] nor any real interest in helping in even the most minor way to resolve the problem in a feasible, much less equitable way.

To resolve it? Are people coming here thinking that they will solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with their posts?

Ok, let me try then, maybe it works:

Israel ought to
- grant Palestinians access to Holy Esplanade
- halt evictions of families in East Jerusalem
- denounce violence & incendiary hate speech
- reduce ethnic incitement

Palestinians ought to
- halt stone-throwing & other violence

[Rev. Rye]

Trivializing the Arab-Israeli conflict as something like a Hatfield McCoy feud bespeaks of no serious understanding in the depth of the issues involved, [...] nor any real interest in helping in even the most minor way to resolve the problem in a feasible, much less equitable way.

To resolve it? Are people coming here thinking that they will solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with their posts?

Ok, let me try then, maybe it works:

Israel ought to
- grant Palestinians access to Holy Esplanade
- halt evictions of families in East Jerusalem
- denounce violence & incendiary hate speech
- reduce ethnic incitement

Palestinians ought to
- halt stone-throwing & other violence

This sounds pretty good. I'd probably add "Get Bibi the fuck out of office, maybe impeach him for crimes against humanity and also Zionist optics," but we can't have it all, can we? Of course, the fact that it sounds reasonable is probably a sign it'll never happen.

[Foxaèr]

[WinterHold]

https://twitter.com/oamaz7/status/1394112246373097475

OMG..this is a Palestinian child that survived an Israeli terrorist airstrike..The shell shock just,,,
OMG.

#IsraeliTerrorists
#IsraelisNazi

[GUBU]

If they keep trying to make Israel a far-right ethno-religious state they won't have a homeland for too much longer.

It’s really weird to me how so many, if not damn near all, Muslim countries are far right autocratic theocracies and some of the most bigoted homophobic places on earth yet - if any of them faced an attack from an organization with with an equivalent doctrine as Hamas has for Israel —- I don’t understand how Hamas could garner more sympathy than Israel. It doesn’t make sense.

Why is the left and even the center so anti semitic? I know people will say anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism but it’s basically holding the position that Judaism shouldn’t have a homeland.

What if in return I said fine, let’s eliminate every Islamic theocracy while we’re at it then?

A) You mean the Hamas doctrine that says Israel should return to the 1968 borders, because that's the only one they have. Oh and by the way, Hamas is a creation of the Mossad. The Israeli state didn't want to be against the secular PLO so they created a religious opposition to fight.
B) On the muslim theocracies, US foreign policy is brilliant, isn't it? Also Israel is now allying itself with the worst and most oppressive of these theocracies.
C) Just because everybody else is evil, it doesn't follow that you should be too. Especially when you're the most powerful nation in the area.

[Anomalocaris]

yes 

Trivializing the Arab-Israeli conflict as something like a Hatfield McCoy feud bespeaks of no serious understanding in the depth of the issues involved, [...] nor any real interest in helping in even the most minor way to resolve the problem in a feasible, much less equitable way.

To resolve it? Are people coming here thinking that they will solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with their posts?

Ok, let me try then, maybe it works:

Israel ought to
- grant Palestinians access to Holy Esplanade
- halt evictions of families in East Jerusalem
- denounce violence & incendiary hate speech
- reduce ethnic incitement

Palestinians ought to
- halt stone-throwing & other violence

no, but they certainly can not contribute to any meaningful discussion concerning the topic if their understanding of the issues stays at the level of confusing it for an essentially frivolous conflict perpetuated only by obstinacy.


to be blunt, none of what you propose can address the existential angst on either side in the least.  

Israel is in the position of a singular and totally unwelcome squatter in the house of a much more numerous family, and she is determined to stay there.   she could not possibility achieve her goals by treating each member of the unwelcoming family as an equal.    The Palestinian would be the family member whose very bedroom has been taken over and is as a result the most resentful of them all.   Israel would certainly be foolish to think any bon homie on her part really could ever win the Palestinians over.

There is no way to address existential angst on either side without inflicting total defeat upon and extracting unconditional surrender from other side, and in a manner where the victorious side, in addition to winning over its direct enemy, is placed in such a position as to never have to worry about the differing interests of the larger world to boot. 

Israel realizes this, which is why this small regional power has, with remarkable, and revealing, acquiesces of normally noisy nonproliferation lobby, developed the Jellico III intercontinental ballistic missiles that has the range to puts all of Euroasia and Africa, from London to Beijing abd St. Petersburg to Johannesburg, and not just the population centers of her avowed regional enemies, under threat from her unadmitted nuclear arsenal.    

Israel’s enemies knows this, which is why they too seek not only a regional nuclear capability to balance Israel’s capability, but also a longer range deterrence capability against the big 5 nuclear powers.

[Brian37]

Palestine is a Muslim, Arab land. It was Jewish in the Iron age until Rome ravaged it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_J...em_(70_CE)





This led to the famous "Jewish Diaspora". The return of Jews to Palestine and establishment of a Jewish state there is "a Zionist" doctrine, the Zionists are a Jewish cult that was supported by Britain in WW1 to weaken the Ottoman empire.

Even though Orthodox Judaism is against "Zionism" totally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Ha...nd_Zionism

the extreme cult (Zionists) is still getting support from the west and many other countries, they commit terrible massacres in the native Muslims & Christians, and cornered them in a small strip called "Gaza".

The cause of the Palestinians is a fair, just cause, they are fighting a cult of extreme religious maniacs who couldn't get over a defeat by the Romans before 2000 years.

I’m not sure how you can claim that Palestine is ‘a Muslim, Arab land’, since there were Jews on it before Islam even existed.

That said, I think the Israeli treatment of Palestinians is abominable and a human rights violation.

Boru

I agree Boru, it is basically housing millions in one giant prison. The rub in it unfortunately, is that it forces Palestinians to turn to their religious nuts for protection. 

But neither side wants to accept that there were polythteists on that same land, long before either religion existed.

[Anomalocaris]

The fundamental problem is prior occupation dating to centuries before the memory of any one who had contact with currently living generations is an fundamentally untenable basis for equitably assigning right of possession of a disputed piece of land with someone else already living on it for all of living memory, no matter how strong that basis might seem to those making the claim to the land.

The impossibility of resolution to the Jewish Palestinian problem stems from the fact that the Jews are there because they were seen as having a claim that would have been denied as outrageous if made by just about anyone else.  The Arabs don’t see by what right those who find it expedient to grant this extraordinary claim can do so at their expense, particularly if a similar claim is made against those who grant the Jews their claim it would have been laughed out of the room.   With the feeling numbers and geography of the Arab world is on their broader side, the Palestinians don’t really on final analysis feel the need to swallow it.

Everything else is just cosmetics disguising the underlying unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

[FredTheLobster]

You’re tired of hearing about it? Poor fucking you.

And the land grabs predate Netanyahu by a long, LONG time. In fact, modern Israel exists because of a land grab.

Boru

"Poor fucking you." 

You know this is a place to make fun of religion and shit, right? I'm tired of religious idiots killing religious idiots because of idiotic ideas.  But hey, thanks for the warm fucking welcome in to the group.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

You’re tired of hearing about it? Poor fucking you.

And the land grabs predate Netanyahu by a long, LONG time. In fact, modern Israel exists because of a land grab.

Boru

"Poor fucking you." 

You know this is a place to make fun of religion and shit, right? I'm tired of religious idiots killing religious idiots because of idiotic ideas.  But hey, thanks for the warm fucking welcome in to the group.

That particular comment was directed at Brian37, not you.

Boru