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Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
#11
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
(June 29, 2021 at 7:59 am)Brian37 Wrote: The more I look back at 2000 the more I see liberals, back then, as pulling the same conspiracy crap as Trump did in 16 and 20. 

Nobody liked the hanging chads, but the truth is to me, that even if the recount had gone full circle Bush still would have won. Where the "rigging" would happen, regardless of party, would be propaganda, not actual process in vote counting. Where the rigging would happen would be in gerrymandering and voter suppression, not actual vote counting. If America had had our modern voting technology back in 2000 Bush still would have won. 

America has had a very long and strong history of voting security. In fact because of the hanging chads, nationwide the country updated it's voting machinery.

We’ll never know if Gore would have won, because the SC stopped the count. It’s sort of like a horse race where one nag appears to win by a nose, but the track officials burn the films of the race to keep people from double checking it.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#12
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
-but we do know, and have known, since January of 01. It was a Supreme Court ruling and gores concession that decided that election. At the time, I had misgivings, but my guy had won so that helped. Then my guy fucked the pooch, and....if you ask me, caused the death spiral that the gop went down- losing an entire generation of its native constituency, like me, in the process......along with a considerable amount of our national wealth and prestige. Inexorably leading to our present situation- where a desperate bid for minority control of the majority is the only option remaining to them.

The next cycles coup attempt will be bigger and more competent. They’ve already squeezed the rocks of voter suppression, the gentlemanly concessions of the other side on account of decency or the nations interests, and even overt retconning of events. No more water to get there, and they’ve since developed a preference for blood at any rate.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#13
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
(June 29, 2021 at 12:04 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The next cycles coup attempt will be bigger and more competent.  They’ve already squeezed the rocks of voter suppression, the gentlemanly concessions of the other side on account of decency or the nations interests, and even overt retconning of events.  No more water to get there, and they’ve since developed a preference for blood at any rate.

Quote:If you are equal, then fight if you are able. If you are fewer, then keep away if you are able. If you are not as good, then flee if you are able.

Therefore if the smaller side is stubborn, it becomes the captive of the larger side.

Sun Tzu, Art Of War III.9-10
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#14
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
I dispute that there is any official or unofficial vote count that is definitive. This is the supported by Factcheck https://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-fl...t-of-2000/. No one knows and no one will ever know but it doesn't matter; Gore did the right thing and it took more courage than Trump has exerted in his entire pathetic life.

Regardless of who got the most votes, there is almost no comparison between 2000 and 2020. Gore did not promote wild conspiracy theories or challenge multiple states in court or denigrate election officials and there were no rioters claiming such conspiracies. There were certainly millions of disappointed Democrats who likely complained of crappy voting methods for years, but that's far from this bunch of nutjobs we have now supporting Trump. I voted for the Libertarian party in 2000 and knew people on both the Republican and Democratic side who behaved with far more dignity. Most of us back then just wanted it resolved so we could get on with our lives.

The Senate investigations going on now tell us everything we need to know about the Republican party; that it is a soulless, unprincipled, hypocritical group of autocrats that would sell their own mother to Hitler if it got them a tax write off. They have, in fact, thrown under the bus every single Republican who has refused to drink the Trump Kool Aid. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of democracy in the US and likely the end of the US as we know it because this pile of skunk shit called the GOP is not going away; they won more down ballot races in 2020 than Dems did. They are doing nothing but calculating their next move and that is the modern version of Jim Crow. The next election will be 90% GOP and in '24, GOP will win almost every election they run in except for deep blue states like Cali and NY. Anyone who criticizes China for it's political party should look at the GOP; its pretty much the same thing.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#15
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
It’s true, he didn’t do any of that- he just rolled over. It would become a pattern for dems and lead inexorably to this moment- and the next.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#16
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
I don't know why you characterize Gore's acceptance of a Supreme Court decision as "rolling over". I think his biggest mistake might have been in the recounts that were requested. There were possibly some things missed that could have turned it his way. But there were no more legal means by which he could challenge the results. By accepting a judgement of the law (which he publicly announced that he disagreed with), he reassured the nation that we are, for better or worse, a nation of law. Had he plunged into further campaigns to disrupt the peaceful transition of power, he would have been guilty of creating a shit show similar to Trump's. Though there is less than zero chance a mob of libs would have raided the Capitol building. No one was ever that in love with Gore.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#17
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
The GOP is hostage to their base and contemporary political realities. Sure, there's a general lack of character among the GOP, but I don't know that this is specific to the GOP. The more substantial contributor is the man who created a quasi-religious cult of hero-worship. Yes the GOP has always had priorities that led to a significant degree of moral flexibility, but with the cult of Trump, their back is against the wall.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#18
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
There were actually legal means. Many Americans believe otherwise because of a cynical pr blitz. He conceded on the advice of one of his lawyers for exactly the reason you note- worries that it would damage the national psyche. We’ve since seen that any democrat winning anything would cause those, no matter what they did.

Like I said before. My guy won that one, so I wasn’t upset by it- but I was young and naive at the time. Perhaps, had Democrats not gotten into the habit of rolling over, they could have helped the gop resist its current death spiral, if nothing else, as the foil of loyal opposition.

Perhaps I’d still be a republican, perhaps I’d see some point to voting.

But that’s not what happened. He rolled, and dems decided that going republican light was the way forward. The gop had to differentiate itself….and this, this that we see today, was how it did so. The bushes are rinos now, and the thing blocking legislation of a unified government isn’t the opposition or the minority party. Meanwhile, Brian, a bleeding heart lib if there ever was one, started this thread by reading the script the trumpets were clinging to at the time- completely oblivious to that (or any other) fact…I suspect.

I think we’re fucked.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#19
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
(July 29, 2021 at 3:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There were actually legal means.  Many Americans believe otherwise because of a cynical pr blitz.

Not that it matters now, but I'm curious what legal avenues you believe he had?  The electoral count has a legal deadline as dictated in the Electoral Count Act of 1887.  The SCOTUS verdict ended the Florida recounts (which was leaning in Bush's direction at the time) and Florida was the only state with votes in question.



Quote:But that’s not what happened.  He rolled, and dems decided that going republican light was the way forward.  The gop had to differentiate itself….and this, this that we see today, was how it did so. 


I recently heard someone else talk describe our political atmosphere the exact same way (Dems went right, GOP went insane), although he actually pointed to Clinton as the first Dem who shifted into Republican territory.  He did steal a lot of their thunder, cut handouts, gave away the farm to big business...etc.


Quote:I think we’re fucked.

Sadly, I agree.     Panic    1,000 years from now children will learn how China ate the US and how a guy named Trump provided the knife and fork.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#20
RE: Bush V Gore and Florida and Trumpism.
I don't recall voters of Al Gore storming the capital in 2000
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming"  -The Prophet Boiardi-

      Conservative trigger warning.
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