It's A Quote

[Paleophyte]

Currently our method of determining gender is based on this -- the way that an individual experiences himself or herself internally.

Socially, out of respect for the individual, we take their word for it.

Typically, when somebody begins transitioning, they have to go through a pretty rigorous psychological evaluation. It's a multi-year process. This notion of Bel's that there is no objective, scientific evidence other than chromosomes is pure far-right bullshit.

[Belacqua]

if someone is a particular gender, you look to the behavioral/social markers since they are more accessible.

OK, that makes sense. 

A person who is a woman wants to act the way that women in that society tend to act. 

This raises a number of questions about whether there is "a way that women act." But I can see that a person who thinks of herself as a woman would want to present that way as well, even if her image of what a woman is is completely contingent on the customs of that society. 

Of course, as you say, there are many people who would like to do this and can't, because of the society they're in. And there are of course all kinds of variations -- there are a wide variety of women, so we can't really say that there is some kind of archetypal image of a woman who would serve as a model for all transgender people. 

Likewise, a person who thinks of himself as a man may or may not model himself on the standard image of men in his society. 

But as a general tendency, it makes sense. 

So I understand that while there is no anatomical test, that could be done in a lab, there are a variety of psychological or behavioral tendencies that can be associated with trans-ness, and may or may not manifest in the case of an individual trans person. 

 why should this be an issue at all?

I think everyone should live and dress the way they want. I'm glad there are all kinds of people in the world. 

The question for me is epistemological: how do we know that this particular statement is true? I appreciate your very reasonable answers.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

if someone is a particular gender, you look to the behavioral/social markers since they are more accessible.

OK, that makes sense. 

A person who is a woman wants to act the way that women in that society tend to act. 

This raises a number of questions about whether there is "a way that women act." But I can see that a person who thinks of herself as a woman would want to present that way as well, even if her image of what a woman is is completely contingent on the customs of that society. 

Of course, as you say, there are many people who would like to do this and can't, because of the society they're in. And there are of course all kinds of variations -- there are a wide variety of women, so we can't really say that there is some kind of archetypal image of a woman who would serve as a model for all transgender people. 

Likewise, a person who thinks of himself as a man may or may not model himself on the standard image of men in his society. 

But as a general tendency, it makes sense. 

So I understand that while there is no anatomical test, that could be done in a lab, there are a variety of psychological or behavioral tendencies that can be associated with trans-ness, and may or may not manifest in the case of an individual trans person. 

 why should this be an issue at all?

I think everyone should live and dress the way they want. I'm glad there are all kinds of people in the world. 

The question for me is epistemological: how do we know that this particular statement is true? I appreciate your very reasonable answers.

(Bold mine)

Why do we need to know whether it's true?

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

Gaza has simply become uninhabitable. Its people are witnessing daily threats to their very existence—while the world watches on.

UN Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, Martin Griffiths.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

‘Chinese?! Korean is the most perfect creature ever to sanctify the Earth with the imprint of his foot!’ - Chiun, Master of Sinanju

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

‘Never slap a man while he’s chewing tobacco.’ - Will Rogers

Boru

[Gwaithmir]

“Do those people who hold up the Bible as an inspiration to moral rectitude have the slightest notion of what is actually written in it?” (Richard Dawkins) 

[Fake Messiah]

“He used to be a boxer, this Jack Bledsoe [Mickey Rourke]...”

“Shit, we all used to be boxers...”

- Charles Bukowski

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

'I'm not afraid of artificial intelligence. I'm afraid of natural stupidity.' - Guillermo del Toro, responding to speculation that his adaptation of Frankenstein is a metaphor for the dangers of AI.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

‘I object to conscription the way a lobster objects to boiling water. It may be his finest hour, but it’s not his choice.’ - Robert Heinlein

Boru