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Benevolent Creator God?
RE: Benevolent Creator God?
You've never read magic book, have you? Sure, god "tested" his people by ordering them to invade and slaughter and rape and enslave...and then he punishes them for not raping and pillaging hard enough. Greatest story ever told, eh?

I don't think you actually believe that people who issue immoral orders are absolved of the moral responsibility for them when other people carry them out - but..if you do, I'd love to hear why you think so. lets try a mob boss. I mean, he's done nothing wrong, would that be correct? How about the operator of a deathcamp? Morally clear?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 1:12 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(October 6, 2021 at 1:07 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, not always, not every bad thing.  God supposedly sends plagues and disasters directly, and then there are those pesky forces of evil operating in the world, satan and demons and whatnot.  According to magic book, ofc.

Anywho, it's difficult to see why a person following an immoral order relieves the issuer of their own moral responsibility for that order.
Because it's a test. If you were issued a test in school, and you failed, would you automatically jump to the conclusion that your teacher must be immoral? You wouldn't do that, if you had any sense. You just failed the test, plain and simple. In this case, your ineptitude says nothing about the morality of the teacher.

It depends on the test. If the test is that teacher infects you with anthrax then the teacher must be immoral. Just as God is immoral when he tests people with plagues and earthquakes. He could give people tests that are not sadistic.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 1:50 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(October 6, 2021 at 1:12 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Because it's a test. If you were issued a test in school, and you failed, would you automatically jump to the conclusion that your teacher must be immoral? You wouldn't do that, if you had any sense. You just failed the test, plain and simple. In this case, your ineptitude says nothing about the morality of the teacher.

It depends on the test. If the test is that teacher infects you with anthrax then the teacher must be immoral. Just as God is immoral when he tests people with plagues and earthquakes. He could give people tests that are not sadistic.

I really fucking hate the "test" argument from believers.

A test is something you take in school or college. A test is something you take to get a job. A test is something you take to get on a sports team. I don't see how it was a "test" for 6 million Jews including unarmed children, women and men, whom were innocent and needlessly murdered, not to mention the estimated 50-60 million dead word wide as a result of WW2. If anyone arguing the existence of an all loving God wants to argue that it is all a "test' then that puts humans in the position of being mere lab rats.
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 12:30 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(October 6, 2021 at 11:59 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: So killing every man, woman, child, infant, unborn, animal, plant, fish, amoeba etc. is a good thing to you?

How about human sacrifice? All good? Because bible god demands it?
I fail to see how the (bold) things are bad.
So killing every living thing is a good thing to you? Wipe them out, all of them, says god and you think that is good?

(October 6, 2021 at 12:30 pm)Ahriman Wrote: And as for human sacrifice, it was humans doing that shit, not God.
You have clearly not read your magic book. Your god demanded it. Jepthah didn't want to do it, but bible god forced him to. Course, that is some of the bible you never read, if you read any of it.

Since we are on this topic, point out where your god said slavery, owning other people as property, is wrong and immoral. Go ahead.

And since you want to hang your hat on such nonsense, I bought a new coat two days ago. It is rain proof and all but is composed of mixed fabrics.

According to your god, that is immoral and a sin. Because...WTF?
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
As a necessary disclaimer, I don't really care what it says in the Bible. God never does anything evil. He would rather do nothing at all, than do something evil.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 4:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote: As a necessary disclaimer, I don't really care what it says in the Bible. God never does anything evil. He would rather do nothing at all, than do something evil.

You don't believe Catholicism, and you don't believe the bible.  Did you invent your own religion, then?  How do you know anything at all about this supposed God?
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 4:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote: As a necessary disclaimer, I don't really care what it says in the Bible. God never does anything evil. He would rather do nothing at all, than do something evil.

How do you know what god would or wouldn’t do?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
I've spoken with God in my dreams, multiple times. I'll admit, I'm just making inferences based on what He told me.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 4:40 pm)Ahriman Wrote: As a necessary disclaimer, I don't really care what it says in the Bible. God never does anything evil. He would rather do nothing at all, than do something evil.

Well, isn't doing nothing, when you obviously can stop evil, evil? Isn't there a sin of omission in Catholicism?

Like he can stop Catholic priests not to rape kids, but he does nothing.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Benevolent Creator God?
(October 6, 2021 at 5:19 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I've spoken with God in my dreams, multiple times. I'll admit, I'm just making inferences based on what He told me.

I may have fooled around with Aphrodite in my dreams.  She told me I was the world's sexiest man.  Thank Zeus it was all real!
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