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Who was Jesus?
RE: Who was Jesus?
(August 18, 2021 at 3:50 pm)Ahriman Wrote:
(August 18, 2021 at 3:33 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Of course it's ALL bullshit. 

But it does to Christians. It's in the creeds. And getting it there was no simple matter. 
They fought over it for decades, if not centuries .... which is one of the reasons why, ... when you read in a gospel or some other "early" writing, that Jesus was literally the son of god,
you know that at the very least, the text was edited or redacted LATER, as the theological concept had not developed until late.  
If you read the proceedings of the councils they fought a LOT about it. 
You can literally read ("watch") as they (humans ... all men of course) cook up their theology in the proceedings of the Councils (you can find them on Fordham's website).
The "filioque procedit" clause is part of the dispute between the various Christianities. 
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent...0the%20Son.
No, it really isn't all bullshit. It doesn't matter if Jesus was literally God's Son or not, what matters is the fact that someone was trying to teach humanity a better way of living, and gladly received (unjust) punishment for these teachings. Jesus was a class act, and it doesn't matter if not everything it says about Him in the Bible, is true. What's important, is that He was, and still is, an invaluable friend of Man, ever-willing to comfort us in times of trouble, and extend His Hand to the poor and needy......not just the financially poor and needy, but the spiritually poor and needy, as well.

If there was a Jesus, the reason he was executed was not what you claim. Jerusalem was an occupied city, and the Romans were in charge. 
They were not interested in the religious squabbles of the provinces. The thing that could get you executed was stirring up trouble.
There were many wandering preachers, who did miracles and the same thing you claim. 
They were not executed. 

It IS all bullshit. When does your Jesus "extend his hand" ? LOL To the Catholics who were molested by the clergy ? Nope. No Jebus there. 
To the Haitians who suffered the earthquake ? Nope. No Jesus there. To the Afghanis ? Nope. No Jesus there. 
In fact all you have is sentimental non-historical drivel, and BS which you make up, on the basis of nothing.
You have this "hippie Jesus" concept, that you dreamed up while smoking something.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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RE: Who was Jesus?
Hippy jesus is the product of social reform - which never stopped happening even if a superstition foolishly locked it's foundational assertions in some long gone place or time. It's the jesus that contemporary people would prefer, rather than the Christ Who Wasn't, described in magic book.

This must have been what OG jesus was, as well, if og jesus was indeed a reform figure. The hebrew hammer never materialize to deliver anyone, but the idea of a figure who woul lift us up and out from beneath the powers that be and the way things are - well, that's a powerful idea. The proto christians saw the value in that idea just as the hippy jesus camp coopted that notion. In all of the same ways and, amusingly, for all of the same reasons/non reasons, in the two cases.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Who was Jesus?
I guess this thread is now a contest to see who's the best blasphemer.
<insert profound quote here>
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RE: Who was Jesus?
Is it? What's blasphemous about deeply considering a theological narrative on it's own merits, without the extraneous and useless assumption that it describes the life of some meat bag in the levant?

I've always wondered why the religious think that they are the ones who take their myths seriously, when that's manifestly not the case. They approach myth as a child, with the understanding of a child, for better and, I think......significantly worse.

It's a bunch of true ghost stories, they say, risking the truth of the narrative message on the altar of their own incompetence and small mindedness. I wonder why christianity as a message or worldview would be even remotely valuable if it truly were premised on whether or not a child prodigy embarrassed jewish wizards in mere reality.

The true test of belief in the religious articles, is whether a person - discovering it was all a myth, would still assert the tangibles. Still believe that this was the right and proper way to live a life - because if that much is arguable based on whether or not a specific carpenter's son was ever born...well, friend, it was never true and no one believed those things on their own merits to begin with. They thought a scary an intimidating and powerful man said as much, and no more. That's all there ever was to the worldview.

Do you think that's the case? Does it seem to you that this is the nature of christian belief? Absent a miracle child, the whole thing is kaput? We know that people, historically and contemporaneously, explain their beliefs through stories. We know that people embellish even the truest of events. We know that men wrote the claims in magic book. What, exactly, is arguable here..and more importantly, what does a person who believes in a christian worldview lose by not having those doomed arguments? Are they blasphemous, truly? Who imperils the christian message and belief more? Are you yourself the right shade of lipstick for straightforward christendom, or do you feel as though your own well considered beliefs about the lack of necessity in literal interpretation is the blasphemous set of belief?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Who was Jesus?
I can only speak for myself, but I've called upon the name of Jesus a number of times, and been saved from distress. One time, while I was at a food bank, trying to get some food, there was a family ahead of me in the queue, and I was really starving, and I wanted the family to hurry up and leave so I could get my food, and I said, in a quiet voice, "Help me, Jesus", and the father of the family suddenly said, "You know what, that's enough for us, let's get out of here", and the family left within 30 seconds, so I was able to get some food. I would consider that a miracle.
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RE: Who was Jesus?
The author of the universe responded to a request from you, to save some time in a line? God of lines. I guess I might pray to that god if I sat in alot of lines....?

You consider it a miracle, I think of the labor hours involved in growing the cabbage and the logistics of the food bank to connect the needy to the product. That wasn't a miracle, do you know how much hard human labor is behind that? I wish some god -did- spread fairy dust all over the process - it's fucking soul destroying to try and do it speaking from everyday experience. Turns out the biggest problem is cold storage. Not that there aren't people trying to give food away - but that non profits have a tough time employing people and securing the materials to build a walk in to accept the food that people are looking to give away. Good food...which is, in practice, absurdly simple. I'll admit, this state of affairs had never occurred to me until I made it my business.

If god wanted to perform a food bank miracle, it wouldn't help you cut in line, there would be walk ins floating down from the heavens landing exclusively in food banks...but...do you notice much of that....? No, you do not, because it's not happening - which is the issue - by hook or by crook. I can't find enough people to pay for them and gods not donating them - therefore some number of people either starve or suffer insecurity or cant make a living holding needful product- and all that this entails.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Who was Jesus?
There might be something there.  I noticed, back when the kids were little and misbehaving, if I said Jesus H. Christ on a crutch! they'd stop being little shits for a while.
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RE: Who was Jesus?
I cut to the chase and ask if they want to be beaten. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Who was Jesus?
(August 18, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I've called upon the name of Jesus a number of times, and been saved from distress. One time, while I was at a food bank, trying to get some food, there was a family ahead of me in the queue, and I was really starving, and I wanted the family to hurry up and leave so I could get my food, and I said, in a quiet voice, "Help me, Jesus", and the father of the family suddenly said, "You know what, that's enough for us, let's get out of here", and the family left within 30 seconds, so I was able to get some food. I would consider that a miracle.

You consider it a miracle that you offended them to the point where they went hungry,  ..... but you got your food. Halleluia.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
Reply
RE: Who was Jesus?
(August 18, 2021 at 4:49 pm)Ahriman Wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I've called upon the name of Jesus a number of times, and been saved from distress. One time, while I was at a food bank, trying to get some food, there was a family ahead of me in the queue, and I was really starving, and I wanted the family to hurry up and leave so I could get my food, and I said, in a quiet voice, "Help me, Jesus", and the father of the family suddenly said, "You know what, that's enough for us, let's get out of here", and the family left within 30 seconds, so I was able to get some food. I would consider that a miracle.

Your standards for what is miraculous are pitiful.
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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