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Current time: May 23, 2022, 4:41 am

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Something for nothing
#1
Something for nothing
Calling electric vehicles is if not dishonest at least very misleading. The sort of people who drive them and brag about how " enviromentally clean" they are are less than honest as well. 

Fact is the " clean energy" they are using comes in the most part from power plants that burn fossil fuels (60%). The other largest single producer is nuclear (21%) Renewables 19%. But - you need to factor in the energy needed to get the equipment needed for rebewables as they rely on other sources of energy in manufacture (80%). 

Electric vehicles are cool - no doubt. I' m building one. ( off road stealth vehicle for hunting - still in development - but got my first ride on it this week. Very torquey).

But pretending they are " zero emmissions" is denying the truth.

Somebody somewhere has to breathe the pollution you are responsible for with your EV.
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#2
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 8:05 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Calling electric vehicles is if not dishonest at least very misleading. The sort of people who drive them and brag about how " enviromentally clean" they are are less than honest as well. 

Fact is the " clean energy" they are using comes in the most part from power plants that burn fossil fuels (60%). The other largest single producer is nuclear (21%) Renewables 19%. But - you need to factor in the energy needed to get the equipment needed for rebewables as they rely on other sources of energy in manufacture (80%). 

Electric vehicles are cool - no doubt. I' m building one. ( off road stealth vehicle for hunting - still in development - but got my first ride on it this week. Very torquey).

But pretending they are " zero emmissions" is denying the truth.

Somebody somewhere has to breathe the pollution you are responsible for with your EV.

They’re still a net plus, environmentally speaking. While it’s absolutely true that the production of electric vehicles produces emissions, the vehicles themselves do not.

On the one hand, then, you’ve got IC engines which are responsible for emissions during both production AND operation, and electric vehicles which have only the former. This particular gripe is only valid is you can show that the emissions resulting from the production of an electric car equal or exceed the emissions of an IC car over the life of each vehicle. Can you?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#3
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 8:45 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(September 11, 2021 at 8:05 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Calling electric vehicles is if not dishonest at least very misleading. The sort of people who drive them and brag about how " enviromentally clean" they are are less than honest as well. 

Fact is the " clean energy" they are using comes in the most part from power plants that burn fossil fuels (60%). The other largest single producer is nuclear (21%) Renewables 19%. But - you need to factor in the energy needed to get the equipment needed for rebewables as they rely on other sources of energy in manufacture (80%). 

Electric vehicles are cool - no doubt. I' m building one. ( off road stealth vehicle for hunting - still in development - but got my first ride on it this week. Very torquey).

But pretending they are " zero emmissions" is denying the truth.

Somebody somewhere has to breathe the pollution you are responsible for with your EV.

They’re still a net plus, environmentally speaking. While it’s absolutely true that the production of electric vehicles produces emissions, the vehicles themselves do not.

On the one hand, then, you’ve got IC engines which are responsible for emissions during both production AND operation, and electric vehicles which have only the former. This particular gripe is only valid is you can show that the emissions resulting from the production of an electric car equal or exceed the emissions of an IC car over the life of each vehicle. Can you?

Boru
That sounds suspuciously like " prove there ISN'T A God".

For the same reason.

You WANT your narrative to be true.


And - you are still denying that the EV' s use is still responsible for emmissions.
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#4
RE: Something for nothing
You are making the very basic mistake of attacking claims that almost no one makes. Sure, there are likely some ding dongs out there that don't understand but most decently educated people don't make those dumb assumptions. It's practically a meme that critics (like you) go around accusing proponent of EVs as completely non-polluting and spitting out candy corn and rainbows from its tailpipe. So just know that when you criticize these people, you are criticizing the minority who are too stupid to know the difference. You are not addressing the majority of people who promote the technology because we aren't idiots. But if you enjoy arguing with idiots, just keep doing that.

The facts are undeniable. ICE cars pollute far more than generating electricity in a plant, which has various technologies to capture emissions. And this doesn't even include the vast number of people who don't keep their automobiles in good working condition and those who purposely engineer their vehicles to spout smoke. If you don't understand this, then you are the dummy.

And besides emissions, there are other good reasons to switch to EV's. Less maintenance and simpler technology, easier and less expensive to maintain. Not to mention less noise pollution.

My biggest question is why the hell you are so gung ho about criticizing people for wanting to advance technology and then you tell us you are building one yourself. Talk about being a hypocrite.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#5
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 8:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote:
(September 11, 2021 at 8:45 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: They’re still a net plus, environmentally speaking. While it’s absolutely true that the production of electric vehicles produces emissions, the vehicles themselves do not.

On the one hand, then, you’ve got IC engines which are responsible for emissions during both production AND operation, and electric vehicles which have only the former. This particular gripe is only valid is you can show that the emissions resulting from the production of an electric car equal or exceed the emissions of an IC car over the life of each vehicle. Can you?

Boru
That sounds suspuciously like " prove there ISN'T A God".

For the same reason.

You WANT your narrative to be true.

And that sounds suspiciously like a dodge. The claim made for electric vehicles is that they produce no emissions, not that building them produces no emissions.

I asked a perfectly straightforward question: Can you show that the total emissions of an electric car (production + driving) exceeds that of a petrol-powered car?

Boru

Your edit: I’m happy to admit that producing EVs creates fossil fuel emissions. I said as much earlier.
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#6
RE: Something for nothing
Yes, the future is scary, but it's coming nonetheless.

By the time those born in 2021, are of driving age most of these aching objections will be looked upon as irrational drivel.
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#7
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 8:48 am)onlinebiker Wrote: That sounds suspuciously like " prove there ISN'T A God".

For the same reason.

You WANT your narrative to be true.


And - you are still denying that the EV' s use is still responsible for emmissions.

You just keep putting words in people's mouth.  It's intellectually dishonest.  Do you just thrive on argument?  Why not open an actual discussion about the differences between combustion engines automobiles and electric automobiles?  There are real differences and the honest truth is in those details.  What do you get from just blanket criticism?
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#8
RE: Something for nothing
Give it time, they will improve.

Here comes the sun, Everyone knows it's windy.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#9
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 8:57 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: And that sounds suspiciously like a dodge. The claim made for electric vehicles is that they produce no emissions, not that building them produces no emissions.

I asked a perfectly straightforward question: Can you show that the total emissions of an electric car (production + driving) exceeds that of a petrol-powered car?

Boru

Your edit: I’m happy to admit that producing EVs creates fossil fuel emissions. I said as much earlier.

A point that's not being addressed here is that OLB is just making a strawman argument, I suppose just for the sake of arguing with people because, I suppose he just enjoys it.  Go figure.

We KNOW that EVs use electricity produced in a power plant.  We KNOW that most of that power includes fossil fuels.  We don't claim otherwise.  We also know that the EVs themselves produce zero emissions and any emissions arising from the electricity they use comes from a facility that is far better at cleaning its emissions than any ICE vehicle.  We are also generally advocates of moving away from fossil fuels to cleaner forms of energy.  So there's absolutely no hypocrisy in the position of promoting EV's.  So just stop with this bullshit argument.  You're just embarrassing yourself.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#10
RE: Something for nothing
(September 11, 2021 at 10:05 am)Spongebob Wrote: We KNOW that EVs use electricity produced in a power plant.  We KNOW that most of that power includes fossil fuels.  We don't claim otherwise.  We also know that the EVs themselves produce zero emissions and any emissions arising from the electricity they use comes from a facility that is far better at cleaning its emissions than any ICE vehicle.  We are also generally advocates of moving away from fossil fuels to cleaner forms of energy.  So there's absolutely no hypocrisy in the position of promoting EV's.  So just stop with this bullshit argument.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but, I have read that if the United States would harvest every photon of light from the Sun that such energy (in Joules) would only meet 50% of that which we consume.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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