[Serious] Woman raped while onlookers did nothing

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I find it a bit amusing that so many people object to people carrying guns ( I celebrated my 20 years of daily carry a month ago) -

But nobody seems to have a problem with someone putting a bullet into a rapist' s buttocks.....

I don't have a problem with people carrying guns.  I DO have a problem with people carrying multiple guns and/or assault-style firearms so they can intimidate those around them.

I also have no problem with someone shooting a rapist during the act if that's what they need to do to stop it.

 I have a huge problem with civilians carrying guns in an urban setting. This is because in my opinion, civilians with guns seem to be so fucking stoopid. Far too many seem to be the victim of magical thinking in what they think carrying a gun will do for them. Something known by those in charge of armies everywhere: It's really hard to get a man to shoot another man. The claim of "I'll just shoot anyone who threatens me or mine," is risible.

Me? Conscript, Australian Army, 2 years. Infantry cross trained as a medic. Joined a combat battalion immediately on its return from Vietnam. IE I am not  a veteran.  Working as a medic meant I got to meet almost every bloke in the battalion.  That was a chilling experience. As the saying goes , it was as if the patients were in charge of the asylum. Every vet I met was twitchy to some degree. The level of twitchiness ranged from barely noticeable to dangerous.

Me and guns: I have never allowed firearms on my property. However, I like guns as beautifully engineered objects, and had a lot of fun firing them, always on a range. . Our basic weapon was a 7.62 SLR, for which I was rated marksman. My weapon of choice was  the Armalite, because it was so light.  Have also fired the F1 submachine gun, (piece if shit) M60 machine gun and Bren gun. Familiar with Carl Gustav anti tank as well as with M26 and M36 (manual prime) hand grenades.  Have never fired a pistol

[Rev. Rye]

As a fan of Black Mirror, I remember that one episode (“Men Against Fire”) was inspired by a very relevant fact, form a book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall: of all the Allied infantry soldiers in World War II, only 25% actually fired their weapons at the enemy. Why? Marshall claims that they were conditioned by civilian norms against taking human lives. Apparently, many of his ideas were incorporated in training and more soldiers fired their weapons in ‘Nam. I don’t have much info on how drill sergeants did things in the WW2 era, but I suspect that this is why Gunny in Full Metal Jacket put such emphasis on killing and being a killer.

The fact is that, even when shooting bad people is your fucking job, even when you’re fighting an enemy who’s not only bad, but considered a special kind of evil (the Nazis/Wehrmacht were pretty self-explanatory, and the Japanese were working at a level of brutality that I don’t think any of America’s previous adversaries were fighting at, mostly because they were convinced that either they had to fight that hard and dirtily or the Japanese nation would no longer exist), most people are going to be too paralyzed by civilian norms to pull the trigger.

[vulcanlogician]

As a fan of Black Mirror, I remember that one episode (“Men Against Fire”) was inspired by a very relevant fact, form a book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall: of all the Allied infantry soldiers in World War II, only 25% actually fired their weapons at the enemy. 

I loved that episode. I wonder if Black Mirror is gone for good or what? It's been a while since they made the last season.

[Rev. Rye]

It’s not, as far as I can tell. During the initial lockdown, Charlie Brooker outright stated that the nature of our current dystopia meant people might not have as much of an appetite for the dystopian. Although the fact that Squid Game is becoming a record-breaking hit for Netflix suggests that the time is right for a new season. Of course, given that he spent last year working on Death To 2020 and that the production cycle for a season is about a year, I expect that Series Six will come next year at the earliest.

[Anomalocaris]

As a fan of Black Mirror, I remember that one episode (“Men Against Fire”) was inspired by a very relevant fact, form a book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall: of all the Allied infantry soldiers in World War II, only 25% actually fired their weapons at the enemy. Why? Marshall claims that they were conditioned by civilian norms against taking human lives. Apparently, many of his ideas were incorporated in training and more soldiers fired their weapons in ‘Nam. I don’t have much info on how drill sergeants did things in the WW2 era, but I suspect that this is why Gunny in Full Metal Jacket put such emphasis on killing and being a killer.

The fact is that, even when shooting bad people is your fucking job, even when you’re fighting an enemy who’s not only bad, but considered a special kind of evil (the Nazis/Wehrmacht were pretty self-explanatory, and the Japanese were working at a level of brutality that I don’t think any of America’s previous adversaries were fighting at, mostly because they were convinced that either they had to fight that hard and dirtily or the Japanese nation would no longer exist), most people are going to be too paralyzed by civilian norms to pull the trigger.

Uhhhhh,

 1.   I find that hard to believe since most of allied infantry during WWII were Soviet, and more than 25% of all Soviet infantry died in battle.  

 2.   I do not believe most of the infantry that had chance to fire effectively at the enemy but didn’t, refrained out of civilian norms.  I suspect majority of them refrained out of reluctance to exposed themselves in the manner required to actually acquire a line of sight to an enemy, or make a bang the enemy can hear and perspectively trace back to them.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Charge them with what? There is no law I'm aware of that requires bystanders to intervene to stop a crime. Correct me if someone knows otherwise.

'Misprision of a felony' might apply, but it would take an exceptionally sharp lawyer to make it stick.

Boru

[onlinebiker]

As a fan of Black Mirror, I remember that one episode (“Men Against Fire”) was inspired by a very relevant fact, form a book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall: of all the Allied infantry soldiers in World War II, only 25% actually fired their weapons at the enemy. Why? Marshall claims that they were conditioned by civilian norms against taking human lives. Apparently, many of his ideas were incorporated in training and more soldiers fired their weapons in ‘Nam. I don’t have much info on how drill sergeants did things in the WW2 era, but I suspect that this is why Gunny in Full Metal Jacket put such emphasis on killing and being a killer.

The fact is that, even when shooting bad people is your fucking job, even when you’re fighting an enemy who’s not only bad, but considered a special kind of evil (the Nazis/Wehrmacht were pretty self-explanatory, and the Japanese were working at a level of brutality that I don’t think any of America’s previous adversaries were fighting at, mostly because they were convinced that either they had to fight that hard and dirtily or the Japanese nation would no longer exist), most people are going to be too paralyzed by civilian norms to pull the trigger.

Uhhhhh,

 1.   I find that hard to believe since most of allied infantry during WWII were Soviet, and more than 25% of all Soviet infantry died in battle.  

 2.   I do not believe most of the infantry that had chance to fire effectively at the enemy but didn’t, refrained out of civilian norms.  I suspect majority of them refrained out of reluctance to exposed themselves in the manner required to actually acquire a line of sight to an enemy, or make a bang the enemy can hear and perspectively trace back to them.

I talked to a couple of Nam vets I know. 

The consensus is anyone who went out on a patrol fired their weapon - multiple times. If you didn' t you were a liability to your squad. They didn' t take kindly to peaceniks in the shit. I am sure the same is true of every war before and since.


The whole " I never fired my weapon" is a way of shutting down a conversation that the vet has every right to forego.

[HappySkeptic]

From my understanding, most fired their weapon. They just aren't actually aiming at anything in particular. The rate of bullets fired vs. enemy casualties was huge.

[Anomalocaris]

From my understanding, most fired their weapon.  They just aren't actually aiming at anything in particular.  The rate of bullets fired vs. enemy casualties  was huge.

The truth is Hollywood severely distorted public expectation of how many bullets even a skilled marksman amongst soldiers must aim and fire in earnest in order to score a single hit under most battle conditions.    

This very large number is greatly increased yet more when the enemy is trained and competently led infantry that knows how to take cover, and how to minimize its own exposure while maneuvering.

In most infantry engagements, most of causalities were inflicted by support weapons such as machine guns, mortars, grenades, and artillery support, and not by the enemy infantry’s individual fire arm.

2nd amendment nut cases who think their pop guns can defend them against an oppressive military force should take note.

---

The truth is Star War’s depiction of how often imperial storm troopers fire and make hits is on the mark, so to speak, for a competent infantry force using semi-automatic personal arms in maneuvering combat.  The film’s depiction of how often Han Solo fire and make hits while on the run with a dressed up Mauser C96 semi-automatic pistol is delusional.

[tackattack]

does their reluctance to hit anything tie in to a star wars reference. I guess the stormtroopers weren't that bad, just peaceniks.