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Current time: December 12, 2024, 7:28 pm

Poll: Is zero a natural number?
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Yes
30.00%
3 30.00%
No
70.00%
7 70.00%
Total 10 vote(s) 100%
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Is zero a natural number?
#1
Is zero a natural number?
I originally thought of titling this thread, "How to piss-off a group of pure and applied mathematicians in (5...15] minutes" but did not want to get any sort of PA tag.

In any case, I am going to buck the overwhelming trend among mathematicians as of late and say that zero is not a natural number and also say that the question of zero's "naturalness" is principally a question of anthropology and not of mathematics.  Some years ago I read a book, Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea, and when the concept of zero was developed in India (and elsewhere) in the 7th century (or, thereabouts) and made its way to Europe, it was not greeted warmly; people were suspicious.  Here's an example of a modern-day ("money making") scholastic denying the existence of the number zero:






The segment in question is only 2 minutes long (if you can stand such), but, clearly, Dr. Craig, who was a communications major at Wheaton College, is having difficultly understanding the fact that numbers can be used as nominal values, but, that's another post.

In any case, the number zero is, in my opinion, not "natural", in the same sense that infinitesimals, limits, convergent/divergent series and non-Euclidean geometries are not natural.  What is certain is that the professional mathematicians, both pure and applied, are going to disagree!

P.S.  The YouTube link didn't paste correctly; you have to scroll to the 1:17:50 mark if you want to hear Dr. Craig's buffoonery.

P.P.S.  To Dr. Craig, "infinity" is not a number.
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#2
RE: Is zero a natural number?
The way to answer thst question is to take Craig's answer and apply the exact opposite.

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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#3
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 18, 2022 at 6:43 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: The way to answer thst question is to take Craig's answer and apply the exact opposite.

^This is a universally applicable paradigm.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#4
RE: Is zero a natural number?
The answer depends on the class you're taking. Sometimes it's considered a natural number, sometimes it's not.

Couldn't locate the segment using the timestamp you posted. What's the argument exactly?
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#5
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 18, 2022 at 7:34 am)GrandizerII Wrote: The answer depends on the class you're taking. Sometimes it's considered a natural number, sometimes it's not.

Couldn't locate the segment using the timestamp you posted. What's the argument exactly?

It's at the 1 hour, 19 minute mark.
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#6
RE: Is zero a natural number?
Does zero occur in nature... yes (I have zero trees outside my house) .... so zero is natural Smile
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#7
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 18, 2022 at 7:59 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Does zero occur in nature... yes (I have zero trees outside my house) .... so zero is natural Smile

Yes, it does occur in nature, but, the Romans got along just fine without any numerical representation of it.
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#8
RE: Is zero a natural number?
My wife's nature is to often tell me 'you get zero'.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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#9
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 18, 2022 at 7:59 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Does zero occur in nature... yes (I have zero trees outside my house) .... so zero is natural  Smile

One could also argue so are fractions (e.g., pieces of a pie) and negative numbers (e.g., below sea level). Hell, what about e, the one known as the natural number also?

It all comes down to convention at the end of the day, in this case a legacy of history past.
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#10
RE: Is zero a natural number?
Sometimes nothing is a real cool hand.
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