Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 28, 2022, 1:14 pm

Poll: Is zero a natural number?
This poll is closed.
Yes
50.00%
2 50.00%
No
50.00%
2 50.00%
Total 4 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is zero a natural number?
#31
RE: Is zero a natural number?
The concept of zero as a number is akin to God as an actual "real" entity.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Reply
#32
RE: Is zero a natural number?
Quote:Really, we're going to have a debate over nothing? No thanks.
Wha's wrong can't handle it Smile
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
#33
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 19, 2022 at 12:53 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Really, we're going to have a debate over nothing? No thanks.

It's like having a debate over who/what created God? Of wait, God has always existed. But, of course, the same cannot be said of the Cosmos??

Theists love explaining one mystery with even greater mysteries and then appeal to their own ignorance to end such conversations, and, so, yes, not much to debate.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#34
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 18, 2022 at 10:33 pm)polymath257 Wrote:
(January 18, 2022 at 9:17 pm)brewer Wrote: Ouch, ouch, ouch, my late high school-early undergrad brain hurts. I expect a delivery of fentanyl and midazolam. Not propofol, no Jackson for me.

Just for fun, does negative or positive ever apply to zero?

Depends a bit on the book used.  One way of resolving ambiguities is as follows:

Positive: >0
Negative: <0
Non-negative: >=0
Non-positive: <=0

So, 0 is not negative, not positive, but is non-negative and non-positive.

Well that's just double talk. Don't even try to tell me about swamp land in Florida. Hehe

I suppose next you'll tell me that infinity exists between 0 and 1.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




Reply
#35
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 19, 2022 at 8:08 am)brewer Wrote:
(January 18, 2022 at 10:33 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Depends a bit on the book used.  One way of resolving ambiguities is as follows:

Positive: >0
Negative: <0
Non-negative: >=0
Non-positive: <=0

So, 0 is not negative, not positive, but is non-negative and non-positive.

Well that's just double talk. Don't even try to tell me about swamp land in Florida. Hehe

I suppose next you'll tell me that infinity exists between 0 and 1.

Between 0 and 1, there exists an infinitude of numbers, some of which are countable (the rational) and others that are not countable (the reals, complex and surreals).
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#36
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 19, 2022 at 8:08 am)brewer Wrote:
(January 18, 2022 at 10:33 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Depends a bit on the book used.  One way of resolving ambiguities is as follows:

Positive: >0
Negative: <0
Non-negative: >=0
Non-positive: <=0

So, 0 is not negative, not positive, but is non-negative and non-positive.

Well that's just double talk. Don't even try to tell me about swamp land in Florida. Hehe

I suppose next you'll tell me that infinity exists between 0 and 1.

No, it is precision of language.

There are infinitely many rational numbers between 0 and 1. That is different than infinity being between them.

(January 19, 2022 at 10:25 am)Jehanne Wrote:
(January 19, 2022 at 8:08 am)brewer Wrote: Well that's just double talk. Don't even try to tell me about swamp land in Florida. Hehe

I suppose next you'll tell me that infinity exists between 0 and 1.

Between 0 and 1, there exists an infinitude of numbers, some of which are countable (the rational) and others that are not countable (the reals, complex and surreals).

I would caution: the numbers themselves are not countable or uncountable. The *sets* of those numbers are.

So, a set containing all numbers of the form a+b*sqrt(2) is a countable set even though it has irrational numbers in it.

(January 19, 2022 at 12:53 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Really, we're going to have a debate over nothing? No thanks.

Edward Grant has a wonderful book about medieval notions of the vacuum called 'Much Ado About Nothing'. It's an interesting read. You might like it.

(January 18, 2022 at 10:56 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(January 18, 2022 at 9:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote: What's the alternative?  That the laws of nature not be describable by some mathematical models?  The term for such a world would be "magic".

As for "nothing" no one has, to my satisfaction, ever provided any physical description of that.  To use "nothing" in a sentence is to give it meaning, if only as an abstraction.  One might as well ask what color Saturday is.

Well...it seems to me that nothingness literally means an absence of physicality.

Why just physicality?
Reply
#37
RE: Is zero a natural number?
Gosh this is fun, and gets funner as time approaches zero.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




Reply
#38
RE: Is zero a natural number?
As the 5th Beatle would say, ya gotta have something.
Reply
#39
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 19, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Ranjr Wrote: As the 5th Beatle would say, ya gotta have something.

Hexadecimal should instead be properly called sexadecimal.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
Reply
#40
RE: Is zero a natural number?
(January 19, 2022 at 7:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(January 19, 2022 at 12:18 pm)Ranjr Wrote: As the 5th Beatle would say, ya gotta have something.

Hexadecimal should instead be properly called sexadecimal.

Not to be confused with sexagesimal, which is base 60.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Euclid proved that there are an infinite number of prime numbers. Jehanne 7 426 March 14, 2021 at 8:26 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Graham's Number GrandizerII 15 1299 February 18, 2018 at 4:58 pm
Last Post: GrandizerII
  This number is illegal in the USA Aractus 13 3959 May 7, 2016 at 10:51 pm
Last Post: J a c k
  The Magical Number 9 Rhondazvous 25 4401 December 30, 2015 at 4:47 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Tricky Number Sequence Puzzle GrandizerII 16 5402 January 20, 2015 at 2:35 am
Last Post: Whateverist
Question Dividing by zero Tea Earl Grey Hot 77 19791 January 18, 2015 at 12:31 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  What is Zero (0)? ManMachine 22 6911 February 9, 2014 at 11:11 am
Last Post: truthBtold
  Number crunching curios pocaracas 24 8148 January 4, 2014 at 2:14 am
Last Post: Belac Enrobso
  If 0.999(etc) = 1, does 1 - 0.999 go to zero? Euler 26 8039 April 30, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  The nature of number jonb 82 36345 October 28, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Last Post: jonb



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)