Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 12:55 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
christians, who needs them?
#1
christians, who needs them?
In the lead up to David Attenborough's latest ( uk ) tv documentary on the subject of Darwin and Evolution which starts later this week, a short piece appeared in today's Daily Mirror newspaper, where the man tells of those lovely, charitable christian types who write hate mail to him, saying he will " burn in hell ". Apparently, these people are furious that he doesn't credit " god " for creating the wildlife shown in his programmes.
Attenborough says that they always mean giving " god " credit for the beautiful things like hummingbirds. His response is to consider the little child in East Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball because it cannot live any other way.
Attenborough " finds it hard to reconcile this with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator ".
Quite so!

He concludes this brief piece by simply and honestly stating that " it never really occured to me to believe in god." And that " Evolution is not a theory. It is a fact ".

Can't wait for the programme.
HuhA man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
Reply
#2
RE: christians, who needs them?
This sounds like something I might set my TV up to watch Smile
He seems a cool fellow, I'm sure I saw a whole bunch of books by him when I was in Whitby last September. Ended up buying A Brief History Of Time instead though. Yeah I think I will tune my TV set up, it's been months since I watched anything other than Cosmos or internet videos... O.o
Reply
#3
RE: christians, who needs them?
I saw lots of his programs when I was a kid. I really should watch some more again.

I used to remember the names of loads of dinosaurs too. Now I only remember a few.

Although when I hear (or read) their names I always remember afterwards (if I knew of the name when I was a kid).

Bozo, if God exists and he's not simply a callous bastard or very ignorant - I think he perhaps IS but maybe its that "God" has a completely different conception of good and evil. He isn't concerned with us humans...- he thinks being a callous bastard is a noble thing!

I agree I cannot find any real reasoning behind it if God exists. Either he's a complete git or totally ignorant (or both) - I can't think of any alternatives.

I think Hitchens said a similar thing in a debate, - about God being either very evil or very ignorant - or both, they're not mutually exclusive. I think saw him say that in a vid.

Hope I get to see the program but I have a terrible (at least short term) memory and have real difficulty trying to remember lots of things to do! I've got other programs to remember I think and other things to do and dates to remember.

I should of course write it down, but I very often forget to look where I wrote the note down.

Hope I don't miss it! And certainly the same with the Red Dwarf special too - and many other things I'm sure. Which I can't quite remember (all at least) at the moment.

And its not as if "if its really that important you'll remember". Because other than basic needs and things - I am open (or closed perhaps rather) to forget anything! (I think).

Evf
Reply
#4
RE: christians, who needs them?
A christians idea of logic is nothing more than senseless dribble and delusional thinking.The idea of a personal God who is interested in little old us is rediculous.Some being hovering over the universe listening to billions of prayers at once and granting and denying prayers is absurd!Not to mention,how his love for us is so incomprehensible that we cant even concieve it,yet for him not proving his existence in a more obvious way we are condemned to hell and eternal torment post mortem for doubting his existence or not believing in him at all.Talking bushes,arks big enough to contain every species of animal,talking snakes and donkeys,Samson beating a ten thousand man army single handedly with the jaw bone of an ass.Come on!! What more do these people need to convince them that the bible and the belief in god is nothing more than a collection of myths?You can slap a christian in the face with all the logic and reason known to man and he will still choose faith in the absurd!!.Christians,who needs them !! Lmoa
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

Reply
#5
RE: christians, who needs them?
It depends how strong someone's "faith" is but I think if someone's faith is strong enough - basically nothing will move them from it.

If their faith is weaker - it can be moved by logic and reason. And I think there are degrees - some it doesn't take much and they just believed and had faith because they didn't realize the alternative. And others it takes a lot more.

And as I said - some cannot be moved I think. But its hard to really KNOW until they've met with reason enough times and their beliefs have been tested.

The problem often comes with those who are not willing to even LISTEN to reason. That often makes it very very hard (or impossible) for a 'person of faith' to be moved.

Although sometimes the only reason someone sticks with their faith is simply because they have been blocking themselves of and not been listening I think - like I said, not realizing the alternative - and if enough reason slips in through the gate; they actually lose their faith.

I agree that of course religious beliefs are completely absurd. Very unparsimonious and implausible indeed. God and miracles defy the laws of the universe for Celestial Teapot's sake!

I find it interesting that - if I am not mistaken - I read on these forums on a thread you created about your story as a past Christian and how you lost your faith; that once you begun to read the bible more you lost a lot more (or all) of your faith? If I remember correctly and I'm not mistaken?

On Penn and Teller's Bullshit Penn said that the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible.

I think the bible either makes you lose your faith - more or entirely - or strengthen it if you already believed what you were told by other believers - or find your faith.

I think it can go all ways because it depends how you interpret it.

And I think providing you haven't been brought up to believe as a child its usually, at least, a lot easier to recognize the circular reasoning.

The whole believing in God because the bible says God exists and is God - and you believe the bible because its Gods book. All that circular mumbo jumbo reasoning.

Although its possible to find faith even if you weren't brought up to believe as a child. But a lot harder and a lot more uncommon I, at least, think.

Evf
Reply
#6
RE: christians, who needs them?
You are correct fve my actual reading of the bible in it's entirety actually pushed me further away from a belief in god.It wasn't just the absurdities I came across that convinced me to discard the whole bible as fiction,it was the cruelty displayed by the biblical god towards mankind.I dont really like authority or being bullied by anyone especially some fictional deity whose methods of discipline are even more barbaric than Hitlers treatment of the Jews or any other dictators abuse of mankind in general.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

Reply
#7
RE: christians, who needs them?
(January 27, 2009 at 11:46 pm)chatpilot Wrote: A christians idea of logic is nothing more than senseless dribble and delusional thinking ... You can slap a christian in the face with all the logic and reason known to man and he will still choose faith in the absurd!!.Christians,who needs them !! Lmoa

I should probably play the apologist here, I feel we all too easily slip into pigeon holing "Christians" or "Theists" as one entity as chatpilots post does. I know many "Christians" and people of other religions who have a very logical mind and can debate on the stories of the bible, ethics and modern Christian views very eloquently and I know many who base their faith on a wider spiritual belief. My point is a large proportions of people of faith do not believe word for word the dictats of their respective holy books and it's important to bear that in mind.

On a slightly different note, it occurs to me that these same people who claim to be "Christian" or "Muslim" etc... but have their own view on religous observances and traditions must at some point no longer exist in that religion ... surely if they believe that they are given the word of God but choose to interpret it otherwise they move away from their own religion? I've alwayd wondered where that distinction lies, any ideas?

Thanks

Sam
"We need not suppose more things to exist than are absolutely neccesary." William of Occam

"Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" William Shakespeare (Measure for Measure: Act 1, Scene 4)

AgnosticAtheist
Reply
#8
RE: christians, who needs them?
That is my whole point Sam! Even those christians that claim not believe everything in the bible but like to cherry pick what suits them are as guilty of what I accuse them of.Considering that the bible was a creation of man and not God inspired as the bible itself claims and some believe, it is open to interpretation to pretty much fit into whatever agenda you may have.I dont see how anyone can read some of the more fanstastical biblical stories and so called discuss them eloquently without realizing that they are myths based on their absurdity and impossibility alone.I am of the belief that science ane religion for example are completely incompatible.Religious belief in my view can sit comfortably in the realm of the paranormal where all logic can be tossed out the window and there is no need for proofs of anything.

Trying to make sense out of the inane is like trying to lift with one hand a thousand pound wieght,impossible!! Unless in favor of faith you are willing to throw caution to the wind and logic and reason out of the equation.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

Reply
#9
RE: christians, who needs them?
(January 28, 2009 at 9:55 am)Sam Wrote:
(January 27, 2009 at 11:46 pm)chatpilot Wrote: A christians idea of logic is nothing more than senseless dribble and delusional thinking ... You can slap a christian in the face with all the logic and reason known to man and he will still choose faith in the absurd!!.Christians,who needs them !! Lmoa

I should probably play the apologist here, I feel we all too easily slip into pigeon holing "Christians" or "Theists" as one entity as chatpilots post does. I know many "Christians" and people of other religions who have a very logical mind and can debate on the stories of the bible, ethics and modern Christian views very eloquently and I know many who base their faith on a wider spiritual belief. My point is a large proportions of people of faith do not believe word for word the dictats of their respective holy books and it's important to bear that in mind.

On a slightly different note, it occurs to me that these same people who claim to be "Christian" or "Muslim" etc... but have their own view on religous observances and traditions must at some point no longer exist in that religion ... surely if they believe that they are given the word of God but choose to interpret it otherwise they move away from their own religion? I've alwayd wondered where that distinction lies, any ideas?

Thanks

Sam


I agree with you there. Not all theists are the same. I know many people who believe in God but don't believe in the Abrahamic God that is described in the bible. Most Christians consider themselves Christian as long as they believe in Jesus Christ, and nothing else. I also think most Christians don't even question their beliefs, so it doesnt occur to them that they are irrational. I know when i was a christian, i didn't. It was more of 'well this is what everyone believes so it must be right'. It was only until I looked at religion non-biasly that I realized that Christianity wasn't positively the true or right religion more than any other in history. That eventually led me to atheism. so everyone is different I guess.
Cher

"I have no advice for anybody; except to, you know, be awake enough to see where you are at any given time, and how that is beautiful, and has poetry inside. Even places you hate" -Jeff Buckley
Reply
#10
RE: christians, who needs them?
RTP I was a fundamentalist for years and had my own ministry,I actually took the bible in its entirety on faith.I once believed it was God breathed and inspired.But when I finally decided to read it in its entirety objectively I became aware of how rediculous some of the bibles claims really are.I do think that when you dedicate yourself to god and follow him religiously you do become delusional as to the veracity of what your belief may be.Faith is almost impossible to shake unless the person decides to pry a little deeper of their own free will.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Lock Them Up! Lock Them Up!! Minimalist 7 1239 October 27, 2018 at 9:19 am
Last Post: brewer
  Near death experiences are not biblical and the bible itself debunks them (Proof) LetThereBeNoGod 0 1124 February 16, 2017 at 4:10 pm
Last Post: LetThereBeNoGod
  Oasis Networks- what do you think of them? Casca 3 1600 January 1, 2017 at 2:05 am
Last Post: Angrboda
  My siblings are agnostic, should I try discussing atheism with them? CindyBaker 17 3583 April 18, 2016 at 9:27 am
Last Post: LostLocke
  This Judge Needs To Be Impeached Minimalist 15 2903 April 14, 2016 at 9:45 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Do humans always accept proofs when presented to them? Mystic 59 12902 January 2, 2016 at 6:08 pm
Last Post: Brian37
  One of Jehovah's Witnesses needs your help Won2blv 46 7186 May 1, 2015 at 8:59 am
Last Post: Chas
  Atheism Kills Off the Ambition of the Lower Classes and Makes them Anti-Social Blackrook 59 28777 July 9, 2014 at 7:05 pm
Last Post: Amalynne0
  God has emotional needs tor 5 1161 March 20, 2014 at 2:56 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  Ethiopian Village has no religion and prospers - The neighbours hate them The Valkyrie 7 3313 December 14, 2013 at 4:16 am
Last Post: Esquilax



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)