Religion and European constitutions

[Deesse23]

Looking up the three constitutions you mentioned:

Germany: mentions it in the preamble in the phrase "Conscious of their responsibility before God and man," which can be interpreted several ways, for instance, as two separate sources of obligation. Perhaps it's more rhetorical than anything else. Also in the context of "So Help me God" in the oath of office. Not ideal that it's treated as an integral part of the oath of office, but that's about it.

Preamble, exactly. That means, god, or the christian belief, is factually not part of the constitution. The constitution starts with article 1, after the preamble.

Oath of office: "So help me god" is not mandatory. When Olaf Scholz was sworn in, he didnt utter those words. Look it up on YT.

The interpretation of the german supreme court is that the founding fathers stated the source of their own principles on which they founded the constitution. Those (christian) principles are not, and can not be the foundation of the german constitution, because otherwise the paragraph of religious freedom would be contradictory, according to the german supreme court.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

How much does the mention of God in a constitution affect your daily life? I'm about as non-theistic as it gets, but this strikes me as a non-issue. France, for example, is one of the most secular of Western nations, while the US, whose constitution makes no mention of God whatsoever, has a major political party embarking on a sweeping programme to subvert democracy, deny science, and curtail basic human rights.

Boru

Why is God in the constitution? I'm a lawyer. I am for the development of law

What difference does it make if God is in or out of a constitution? Leaving God out is no guarantee of good governance, putting God in is no guarantee of bad governance.

If you're a lawyer, then you should understand that you need something foundational to establish a case. In other words, you need to show why mentioning God in a constitution is harmful. I don't think you can do that.

Boru

[Interaktive]

Why is God in the constitution? I'm a lawyer. I am for the development of law

What difference does it make if God is in or out of a constitution? Leaving God out is no guarantee of good governance, putting God in is no guarantee of bad governance.

If you're a lawyer, then you should understand that you need something foundational to establish a case. In other words, you need to show why mentioning God in a constitution is harmful. I don't think you can do that.

Boru

let's say God does not harm the constitution. but people's mental health how? deism is good but what to do with christ krishna and allah?

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I can say, that in Ukraine constitution, about deism, not about christ Krishna Allah

[Rev. Rye]

Oath of office: "So help me god" is not mandatory. When Olaf Scholz was sworn in, he didnt utter those words. Look it up on YT.

Good point. That said, I do think the fact that they put it in the constitution as officially part of the oath and not an optional add-on at the end is less than ideal, even if it is in practice optional.

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What difference does it make if God is in or out of a constitution? Leaving God out is no guarantee of good governance, putting God in is no guarantee of bad governance.

If you're a lawyer, then you should understand that you need something foundational to establish a case. In other words, you need to show why mentioning God in a constitution is harmful. I don't think you can do that.

Boru

let's say God does not harm the constitution. but people's mental health how? deism is good but what to do with christ krishna and allah?

---

I can say, that in Ukraine constitution, about deism, not about christ Krishna Allah

And do Germany, France, and Poland's constitutions reference Christ Krishna Allah?

[Interaktive]

Oath of office: "So help me god" is not mandatory. When Olaf Scholz was sworn in, he didnt utter those words. Look it up on YT.

Good point. That said, I do think the fact that they put it in the constitution as officially part of the oath and not an optional add-on at the end is less than ideal, even if it is in practice optional.

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let's say God does not harm the constitution. but people's mental health how? deism is good but what to do with christ krishna and allah?

---

I can say, that in Ukraine constitution, about deism, not about christ Krishna Allah

And do Germany, France, and Poland's constitutions reference Christ Krishna Allah?

developed constructions about deism, not about krishna christ allah. it is necessary to explain nature to the stupid and sick

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

What difference does it make if God is in or out of a constitution? Leaving God out is no guarantee of good governance, putting God in is no guarantee of bad governance.

If you're a lawyer, then you should understand that you need something foundational to establish a case. In other words, you need to show why mentioning God in a constitution is harmful. I don't think you can do that.

Boru

let's say God does not harm the constitution. but people's mental health how? deism is good but what to do with christ krishna and allah?

---

I can say, that in Ukraine constitution, about deism, not about christ Krishna Allah

But how does putting God in a constitution harm people's mental health? Religion is going to fuck with people whether or not it's in the constitution.

If you want to argue that theocracies are bad things, I concede the point. But the mention of God is - more often than not - simply a rhetorical device that, by itself, has little or no impact on governance and legislation.

Boru

[Interaktive]

So, god in constitution is more filosofic, then religion

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

So, god in constitution is more filosofic, then religion

No, 'rhetorical'.

Boru

[Interaktive]

So, god in constitution is more filosofic, then religion

No, 'rhetorical'.

Boru

Outwardly beautiful, but meaningless eloquence.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

No, 'rhetorical'.

Boru

Outwardly beautiful, but meaningless eloquence.

Yup. The mention of God in the foundational documents is most often done to appease the Great Unwashed. While there are some cases where those crafting the documents use such rhetoric as a direct indicator of their intent to create a theocracy (you’re most likely to find this in the Muslim world), such instances are relatively few and far between.

On the other hand, the exclusion of God from a constitution is no guarantee that a theocracy won’t arise in a particular country.

Boru