The Search for Converts

[Leonardo17]

One thing that I like about Atheists and agnostics is that they will rarely be looking for converts. They may make fun of you or attempt to make you see some factual realities but they won’t feel any Ego-satisfaction from gaining you into their belief-system.
 
I believe that toward the end of this century with might see a similar shift in religious thought also. When I was 10-12 years of age I would take my printed world atlas and say “Hah, there are this many Muslims in the world. And this is the territory they control. And it is the second biggest religion. We must be really good. Etc.” Today I simply understood that what matters the most is the quality of these I don’t know how many million or billion people.
 
If there is a spiritual teaching (which is my understanding on the issue of religion), it is not important how many people “agree” with these things and are performing the given rituals and are ready to go on holy war for these ideas. This was important a 1000 years ago, at the time of theocratic societies. Today if we are talking of “teachings” the only thing that matters is how many people truly understand these teachings and are able to use them for personal benefit.
 
As an example: Putschist generals of the 80’s who wanted a more obedient and religion-loving society had made it mandatory for every Turkish citizen to declare their religious-beliefs on their identity papers. Based on this it is still being said that 99% of Turkish society is Muslim. Of course these figures are completely untrue, but even if they were true, this wouldn’t mean anything.
The only thing that would change anything would be, if we are talking of a spiritual teaching, if only 10 % of Turkish society could understand the true nature of these teachings and be able to apply these to their personal lives.
   What I am saying is not ethnocentric or specific to my culture. As I said, I belief in the validity of many teachings. I am talking about my own culture because I allowed to mock my own culture as much as I want to. But I also see a lot of value in Hindu teachings also. Yet in today’s Indian society people are struggling with issues of misogyny, extreme class inequality and even racism. To understand my point one has to study the messages of great Indian mystics and modern thinkers. Not some populist politicians who claim to understand Hinduism not even main-stream Hinduism which I see as being corrupted by many superstitions, false beliefs, and wrong and inadequate interpretation of sacred texts and spiritual teachings.
The same is applicable to almost all spiritual traditions. Instance: God is here to support you right? He has no reason to want you to suffer, make bad decisions and carry your pregnancy to an end say, If you are unwilling to be a parent and feel unready to be a parent and to assume all the responsibility that will come with it. And about everyone must know perfectly the things he was referring to in the order of “Do not kill”. This most probably means murder, killing out of jealousy or envy, killing someone to rob him/her, killing people who have different beliefs, killing the inhabitants of another country to rob and enslave them, killing other beings who inhabit this planet as a result of our extreme consumerism, greed and spirit of economic competition… This must be the logic behind it. If he is also the source of the buffalo for instance, it is probably normal that he doesn’t want me to kill that animal, at least not for sport.
So what I see if that more modern scholars, mystics, Gurus (Guru means teacher, so I will call them real Guru’s) and writers etc. Most of them are struggling very hard in some cases, to make the already believing population understand some more-in-depth meaning of the already existing religious teachings.
From this I conclude that the number of believers in total, or the number of converts on a yearly basis, cannot mean anything anymore. This is also a wide topic so I am going to stop here.

[onlinebiker]

My latest convert.....

[arewethereyet]

One of the things is that it seems many atheists dislike is the recruiting thing. Many of us don't like it done to us and aren't going to start going door to door to deconvert others.

The issue is when people want laws to be based on their religion. And they want everyone to follow those laws.

[The Valkyrie]

As an atheist, I don't consider it my purpise to try to get others to deconvert.

I, honestly, don't care what people believe, so long as they don"t use those beliefs to harm or discriminate against others, force others to follow their religion or the laws of that religion, or push it on others through education or laws.

[arewethereyet]

It may help to note that many of us come from religion. Many born and raised in one. We worked our way out and realize that it has to come organically to everyone.

[Fake Messiah]

Well, I am surprised that there is no Christian order devoted to converting people online. Like a whole monastery of monks sitting by computers, visiting forums and social networks trying to convert people.

I mean, Francis of Assisi went to Muslim lands on foot wanting to convert Muslims to you know what, but these monks today can't even do it by the safety behind the computer.

[Leonardo17]

Well, I am surprised that there is no Christian order devoted to converting people online. Like a whole monastery of monks sitting by computers, visiting forums and social networks trying to convert people.

I mean, Francis of Assisi went to Muslim lands on foot wanting to convert Muslims to you know what, but these monks today can't even do it by the safety behind the computer.

In Turkish speaking forums and social media there are armies of trolls who for instance, will immediately start attacking anyone who dares to utter anything on the headscarf or on the ruling AK party.
Another example: There is a Turkish “Atheist” forum on the Internet. All of the participants and moderators are political islamist teenage trolls who are only there fo F. up the brain of anyone who decide to become a member of these forums.
But yes, this is stupid indeed. I do understand people who put bibles into hotel rooms, who open stands in universities or who come to your door to promote their religious views, but how effective can such an effort be in social media platforms or in internet based forums?

[The Grand Nudger]

I see up there that you have opinions on what a gods logic must be - but that's just you. Maybe god really does hate the hoors and babbykillers.

[Leonardo17]

- You must have meant he likes them?
- Yes that’s my opinion too. Another great issue that is related to this is the issue of the devil. Most in-depth religious writings agree that there is no anti-God as described by some dogmatic believers. In fact some mystics describe it as a most loyal servant of God. More moderate people will say that “The Devil is only another angel”. This has parallel in Hinduism also. As a response to your question: There is clearly a force, that also comes from God, that supports the existence of hoors and evil people.
But these are all in-depth subjects. See this is why one takes the “users-manual” in his / her hands. Not to repeat some verses without understanding, but in a quest to uncover some subjective realities.

What I wanted to add to my previous post:
- I actually cannot type anything about hating the headscarf on google (not in Turkish language). The one readable content that appears in Turkish Internet-based media is the article of a well known psychiatrist, who has, I would say, a much more cooperative viewpoint on the issue in comparison to my ideas on this subject. And the following articles are articles that are demonizing this poor man for his relatively critical approach on the issue.

Populists all over the world know very well that all forms of media (especially the internet media) has to be controlled in order to be able to control society.
I saw it on a documentary. In St-Petersburg they even have specialized cyber-café’s for that. People come to this café (whose owner is one of oligarchs who is very close to Putin), they receive a pay of 50 euros / day if a remember correctly and they have some quotas to will. So they come in, open their laptops on their desks (about 20-25 people), and there is this guy who is standing in front of a big screen who is showing these “participants” some discussion on twitter or on a platform like that and is directing them to write certain type of comments, to verbally harass this or that participant, to invite this or that person to a more kremlin-sided discussion group etc…

So if you intend on becoming an online missionary that wants to spread spiritual ideas through the internet, I wish you Good luck with that

[The Grand Nudger]

No, Leo..I meant exactly what I said. God™ makes it clear he has hateful plans for this or that group of people. What, you don't believe the lord your god?