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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 14, 2023 at 7:56 pm
(This post was last modified: July 14, 2023 at 7:56 pm by Belacqua.)
(July 14, 2023 at 7:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 6:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 5:24 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Is there anything that must exist in order for quantum foam to exist?
A good question but I might phrase it differently. What must be true in order for quantum foam to exist and have the properties it seems to have?
Yes, important point. I have to get away from speaking of God or a First Cause as some kind of physical substrate.
No one serious talks about it that way.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 14, 2023 at 8:15 pm
(July 14, 2023 at 6:23 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Please note that you shifted the sense of the word 'dependent' here. There are many many ways in which things are dependent on other things.
Most things are contingent on many other things in many different ways.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 14, 2023 at 8:31 pm
(July 14, 2023 at 7:56 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Yes, important point. I have to get away from speaking of God or a First Cause as some kind of physical substrate.
No one serious talks about it that way. To their unending shame and my perpetual amusement.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 7:30 am
(July 14, 2023 at 8:15 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 6:23 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Please note that you shifted the sense of the word 'dependent' here. There are many many ways in which things are dependent on other things.
Most things are contingent on many other things in many different ways.
Precisely my point. And that shows the inherent vagueness of the concept, which can lead to false conclusions.
In particular, I showed an example of circular dependency. If you stick to causality, that couldn't happen. But then, it wouldn't give the conclusion you want.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 7:31 am
(July 14, 2023 at 6:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 5:24 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Quantum foam seems to be noncontingent...it can't not exist.
Interesting point. I don't know anything about quantum foam.
Is there anything that must exist in order for quantum foam to exist?
So by analogy: it's clear that hydrogen must exist for water to exist; if all the hydrogen suddenly disappeared, then water would disappear too.
Is there anything for which we can say "If X disappeared, quantum foam would disappear too?"
Not that we know of.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 7:32 am
(July 14, 2023 at 7:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 6:47 pm)Belacqua Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 5:24 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Is there anything that must exist in order for quantum foam to exist?
A good question but I might phrase it differently. What must be true in order for quantum foam to exist and have the properties it seems to have? Good question. Do you have an answer?
Maybe quantum foam is a first cause?
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 8:05 am
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2023 at 8:06 am by Loaded dice.)
(July 14, 2023 at 7:41 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: No. There are no unicorns and no Pink Sparkly ones. It's not logical at all.
It also does not mean that they are possible.
That's a pile of hot garbage, Bucky.
Unicorns are logically possible, even if they never existed and never will exist. Do you even know what logically possible means ?
(July 14, 2023 at 7:41 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: I can conceive of all kinds of things which COULD NOT exist.
Go ahead, give me one example of something you can conceive of, and which is logically impossible to exist at the same time.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 8:07 am
Your brain.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 8:09 am
(July 15, 2023 at 8:07 am)no one Wrote: Your brain.
Please get out of here and let us have a fruitful discussion.
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RE: The Principle of Contingent Causation: The Impossibility of Infinite Regress.
July 15, 2023 at 8:24 am
(July 15, 2023 at 8:05 am)Loaded dice Wrote: (July 14, 2023 at 7:41 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: No. There are no unicorns and no Pink Sparkly ones. It's not logical at all.
It also does not mean that they are possible.
That's a pile of hot garbage, Bucky.
Unicorns are logically possible, even if they never existed and never will exist. Do you even know what logically possible means ?
(July 14, 2023 at 7:41 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: I can conceive of all kinds of things which COULD NOT exist.
Go ahead, give me one example of something you can conceive of, and which is logically impossible to exist at the same time.
Waltzing on a pulsar wearing a magentu tutu.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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