Gender

[Bucky Ball]

There is a fairly standard self-reporting tool that in many states is required for Family Practice preventive visits and others I'm sure I don't know about, (probably Post Partum visits).
Many clinical research studies track the use of this tool, along with all the data the actual study is about. 
It's called the PHQ-9. For established patients known to the providers, the scoring system is known to be useful. 
I'd have to look up the research on it, but, just an example of a known, useful tool in wide use. 
https://www.hiv.uw.edu/page/mental-healt...ning/phq-9

Really their standard in name only because peoples minds are rarely standard

https://www.apa.org/pi/about/publication...properties.

[FrustratedFool]

@Belacqua
Sure. Science hasn't got anything directly to do with it.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Really their standard in name only because peoples minds are rarely standard

https://www.apa.org/pi/about/publication...properties.

Yes I know what APA says that doesn't counter my point

[Bucky Ball]

https://www.apa.org/pi/about/publication...properties.

Yes I know what APA says that doesn't counter my point

The point of the post was not the "APA". The point was how often the PHQ reflected the state of patient with respect to depression.
Did you read the link, and how the use of it was validated ?
The form when filled out, is a way to begin a conversation. It's normally filled out privately and presented to the providers.
Many people know nothing about depression, or how to begin a conversation if they want to talk about. Many people look at the questions
and see things they never associated with depression. The form itself it not treatment.
It's one tool that the research has proven useful and fairly accurate. 
Do you have a better tool or better ideas ?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Yes, I am aware of all of this I'm simply pointing out the pragmatic real-world fact that real mental issues in the real world don't fit into such a nice clear model psychology is messy.

[Belacqua]

@Belacqua
Sure.  Science hasn't got anything directly to do with it.

Yes, I agree.

[Bucky Ball]

Yes, I am aware of all of this I'm simply pointing out the pragmatic real-world fact that real mental issues in the real world don't fit into such a nice clear model psychology is messy.

You wrote this

"That's absurd we rely on self-reporting to huge degree and there are no universal symptoms of depression there are guidelines but those are not gospel. One mans depression is not another mans depression. Also when comes to gender i doubt any such test can exist there are to many factors to gender to make such test reliable or meaningful gender identity is a personnel identity that is based on the individual and their definitions of what they mean when they use it and their is noting in science that contradicts this."

There may not be "universal symptoms" but there are symptoms that are very common, which according to the research I provided, track fairy accurately the diagnosis.

It's not the only way a provider looks at the problem. It asks about the common symptoms people with depression has, that many do not associate with depression. 
Patients are known in that field to present within a Bell distribution with certain symptoms. Of course there will be *some* outliers. 
The symptoms asked about in the PHQ-9 are not a "nice clear" anything. It's based on expert knowledge of how patients present, with a possibility of 262144 (I think) possible combinations. 
The fact it's required all over the country tell me a lot of providers find it useful. There are not an "infinite" number of possibles. It's not the ONLY thing in a visit the provider uses. 
What would YOU add to the tool or what do you want them to do ?

[The Architect Of Fate]

My friend, I am a provider. And I think I know my business well enough 

[Belacqua]

Both science and observation have ruled out genitals or sex chromosomes as being the absolute definitive markers for gender. 

I'm curious about what science tells us here. Beyond simply listening to the subject, what objective "markers" do we have for gender?

Someone who identifies as a man might not have a penis, but if they meet enough of the other criteria for being a man (whatever these criteria may be), then they shouldn't be precluded from being considered by society as a man.

It's the "other criteria" I'm curious about. 

People used to say that boys played with trucks and girls played with dolls. That doesn't seem to be the case any more -- this is no longer a criterion of gender. 

Surely it isn't something superficial like wanting to wear a dress. Men can wear whatever they want and still be men. 

I take the self-reporting of the subject seriously, but I'm still not seeing it as in any way objective, empirical, repeatable, or scientific. 

And if someone wants to be treated as a man I'll treat him that way. It's no bother to me at all. But that's because I share the liberal ideology that is dominant now among people in our time, place, and social class.

[Bucky Ball]

My friend, I am a provider. And I think I know my business well enough 

Well so am I, and it's very curious that the very thing you point to as a weakness of the tool, is actually a strength.
Patients don't like this shit. They hate paperwork. Things like the PHQ often end up in the waste-basket, in the lobby. 

If they were handed a tool that listed every single symptom of depression anyone ever reported, they would toss it back at the nurse as they burst out laughing. 

It's also very curious you can offer no improvements or suggestions or alternatives. 

The thing is, the tool has actual research behind it. That means that in the data analysis phase of the studies, all the symptoms they looked at, 
had to be statistically significant for the sample. That means, that the criticism you raised, you ought to know, would not be one of the 
questions, as it would be an outlier. 

So you were actually correct about the outlier symptoms not being listed, and that would be assurance the data analysis was done correctly, and it's actually 
a good thing.