The enormity of WWII

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What is this WWII being spoken of?  Gee, I hadn't ever heard a word about it.

Yeah, no spoilers! Some of us are still reading!

[The Valkyrie]

So, the Second World War was kind of a big deal? If you hadn’t told me, I never would have known.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Boru

We don't realize how big of a deal this war was, this probably includes you, also.

I can easily make a case that it'll never happen again. Now that nuclear weapons are widespread, any total war is simply the complete annihiliation of the human species, and leaders know that -no one would win.

So we only have the example of WWII as the most devastating demonstration of what modern weapons and modern political evil (far-right ideas like nazism) are capable of.

I do.

I used to work with veterans at the RSL at home.

Still do, occasionally.

[Loaded dice]

The Holocaust was enacted by a subset of Germans who were looking for revenge for the loss of WWI.

It's really a singular event in history. I know there was an entire tradition of antisemitism in the german society back then. The Nazis only needed some propaganda here and there to go from common forms of discrimination to actual physical extermination.

I don't believe the holocaust is the doing of a minority of germans. An operation of this scale couldn't have been done without cooperation at all levels of the german society.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The Holocaust was enacted by a subset of Germans who were looking for revenge for the loss of WWI.

It's really a singular event in history. I know there was an entire tradition of antisemitism in the german society back then. The Nazis only needed some propaganda here and there to go from common forms of discrimination to actual physical extermination.

I don't believe the holocaust is the doing of a minority of germans. An operation of this scale couldn't have been done without cooperation at all levels of the german society.

Cooperation wasn’t necessary. Inaction was sufficient. Yielding to the inevitable means rolling with the punch. It does not mean stooling for the guards.

Boru

[Anomalocaris]

WWII only seems more consequential than a host of other historical events because it occurred recently and dovetail with recency bias.    things like the black death, the greco Persian wars, the fall of the roman empire, the islamic conquest, the european colonization of america, the bronze age collapse, etc, all seem to me to likely be substantially more consequential   to the long term subsequence development of human history than WWII might.

i suspect in several centuries WWII would seem to people then as the 30 years war is seen now, a period of violence and turmoil that defines a range of  major long term changes,  but not necessarily an event of epochal importance akin to colonization or america or the like.

[Loaded dice]

WWII only seems more consequential than a host of other historical events because it occurred recently and dovetail with recency bias.    things like the black death, the greco Persian wars, the fall of the roman empire, the islamic conquest, the bronze age collapse, etc, all seem to me to likely be more consequential   to the long term subsequence development of human history than WWII might,

Although recency bias is definitely present, it's only a minor point when it comes to WWII. There were massive technological and military advancements, which culminated in Project Manhattan and the atomic bombings. The V-2 rockets were also unbelievable, the Allies competed to acquire their technology after the war.

I don't think anything in history before WWII can be compared to the military achievement of detonating nuclear weapons, these weapons can erase thousands of people in a few seconds. Any other military conflict in the past simply pales in comparison. Military leaders throughout history won battles by sending massive groups of mens to the battlefield and thereby overpowering their opponent, this idea obviously no longer works.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Holocaust was enacted by a subset of Germans who were looking for revenge for the loss of WWI.

It's really a singular event in history. I know there was an entire tradition of antisemitism in the german society back then. The Nazis only needed some propaganda here and there to go from common forms of discrimination to actual physical extermination.

I don't believe the holocaust is the doing of a minority of germans. An operation of this scale couldn't have been done without cooperation at all levels of the german society.

The ordinary Germans weren't given the option to not cooperate.

[Anomalocaris]

the degree to which ordinary germans civilians and soldiers knew and condoned nazi war crimes and holocaust were also probably underestimated in popular perception due to systematic effort to white wash them to more smoothly transition west germany into the western camp during the cold war, and to better demonize the eastern camp.    certainly the clean Wehrmacht myth has come unglued since the end of the cold war.

[Anomalocaris]

WWII only seems more consequential than a host of other historical events because it occurred recently and dovetail with recency bias.    things like the black death, the greco Persian wars, the fall of the roman empire, the islamic conquest, the bronze age collapse, etc, all seem to me to likely be more consequential   to the long term subsequence development of human history than WWII might,

Although recency bias is definitely present, it's only a minor point when it comes to WWII. There were massive technological and military advancements, which culminated in Project Manhattan and the atomic bombings. The V-2 rockets were also unbelievable, the Allies competed to acquire their technology after the war.

I don't think anything in history before WWII can be compared to the military achievement of detonating nuclear weapons, these weapons can erase thousands of people in a few seconds. Any other military conflict in the past simply pales in comparison. Military leaders throughout history won battles by sending massive groups of mens to the battlefield and thereby overpowering their opponent, this idea obviously no longer works.

World War II certainly facilitated the dramatic, but relatively short-lived, acceleration in the development of many technologies. It may have compressed research and development that would have taken 10 or 15 years to develop into five years. But I think we need to keep the long term significance of a one time five or 10 year shortening of the technology development cycle in prospective.   I think the long-term demographic, social and economic consequences of World War II will be much greater and more enduring than its technological consequences.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

the degree to which ordinary germans civilians and soldiers knew and condoned nazi war crimes and holocaust were also probably underestimated in popular perception due to systematic effort to white wash them to more smoothly transition west germany into the western camp during the cold war, and to better demonize the eastern camp.    certainly the clean Wehrmacht myth has come unglued since the end of the cold war.

Or it may not have been done like that.