The enormity of WWII

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know there was an entire tradition of antisemitism in the german society back then. The Nazis only needed some propaganda here and there to go from common forms of discrimination to actual physical extermination.

Antisemitism in Europe goes back much further than Germany, although it can be fairly said that the German variety took it to its farthest end.

I don't believe the holocaust is the doing of a minority of germans. An operation of this scale couldn't have been done without cooperation at all levels of the german society.

I think this is one aspect of WWII that we will never really grasp. Who was brave enough to denounce Nazi policy publicly? It's true that many Germans were involved in the works supporting the Holocaust, from some railroad workers to IG Farben lab workers to Einsatzgruppen troops. The latter certainly knew. Some railroad workers definitely knew. But a majority of 70-million+ Germans were likely only aware of the 1935 laws and Kristallnacht. The death camps were secret, and only established after the war started.

[Anomalocaris]

On the other hand, research since the end of Cold War in Germany and in the archives of former eastern block states seems to show the german army’s complicity in the war crime on the eastern front and in the holocaust had been vastly underestimated in accounts of the war circulated in the west during the Cold War,   to the extent that the german soldier who served on the eastern front but who didn’t participate in or saw some war crime or crime associated with holocaust committed by his unit would have been the rare exception.   Taken in the context that over 10% of pre-war German population served in the german army on the eastern front during World War Two,, it would seem to imply limited knowledge of german war crimes and holocaust amongst the general population in Germany is quite implausible.

[Thumpalumpacus]

On the other hand, research since the end of Cold War in Germany and in the archives of former eastern block states seems to show the german army’s complicity in the war crime on the eastern front and in the holocaust had been vastly underestimated in accounts of the war circulated in the west during the Cold War,   to the extent that the german soldier who served on the eastern front but who didn’t participate in or saw some war crime or crime associated with holocaust committed by his unit would have been the rare exception.   Taken in the context that over 10% of pre-war German population served in the german army on the eastern front during World War Two,, it would seem to imply limited knowledge of german war crimes and holocaust amongst the general population in Germany is quite implausible.

Sure, and no real argument, but I had thought he was implying direct knowledge.

[LinuxGal]

The nuclear bombings are also a huge deal for me. Why erase an entire city filled with innocent people to force capitulation. I think the U.S. committed one the worst war crimes ever when they did that.

Okinawa was a foretaste of what invasion of the home islands would have been like.  War would have ended in '47, maybe, with a million more US war dead.

[The Grand Nudger]

People use the term war crime pretty loosely. Terrible. Yes. A contender for the worst single act of violence in human history. Yes. Warcrime? No. I can't remember which one it was that went off directly above a unit at parade rest - and, unfortunately for the japanese, they had officially distributed their war production all the way to individual households - making them legitimate targets in any case.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The nuclear bombings are also a huge deal for me. Why erase an entire city filled with innocent people to force capitulation. I think the U.S. committed one the worst war crimes ever when they did that.

Okinawa was a foretaste of what invasion of the home islands would have been like.  War would have ended in '47, maybe, with a million more US war dead.

And quite frankly millions of more Japanese dead. Those bombs saved a lot of lives.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There were two atomic bombs used at the Bikini tests. ("Those weren't tests, they were trying to kill something!") The cores for both tests were already in the Pacific when the war ended. The NSA Bomb Docs include a discussion of production schedules with a guarantee that six bombs a month, MINIMUM, would be produced by October. So, by the end of 1945 TWENTY ATOMIC BOMBS would have been available for use against Japan.

I wonder how the US public would have called it. "If they don't surrender, keep bombing them until they do." They sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind, but it could have been so much worse.

[Anomalocaris]

How is atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki fundamentally different from other strategic bombing of urban targets? Neither were the most deadly nor the most destructive strategic bombing mission to be carried out during the war. Compared to the atomic bombing, many of those other conventional strategic bombings were carried out more as a matter of following a established policy than because they were individually clearly justifiable as conducive to reducing overall casualty or achieving commensurate military or political advantage.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The bombs produced a deadlock in the Imperial Cabinet. They had go before the Emperor and admit they didn't have a plan for proceeding with the war. Hirohito took the chance to say "enough!"

[LinuxGal]

The bombs produced a deadlock in the Imperial Cabinet. They had go before the Emperor and admit they didn't have a plan for proceeding with the war. Hirohito took the chance to say "enough!"

The emperor recorded a surrender speech on a record to be played over the radio, and some of the members of that Imperial Cabinet tried to steal the record before it went on the air, something similar to the January 6 shenanigans.