What has Christianity truly contributed to humanity

[Fake Messiah]

You're a thankless shithead to all the heros of the past who made incredibly difficult incremental progress towards the recognition of human rights that now, in retrospect, seem obvious. But they definitly were not obvious back then.

And the reason it wasn't obvious in the past was because people followed the Bible where god clearly expects from people to keep slaves; makes it clear that every man is free to sell his daughter into sexual slavery; Jesus did not object to the practice of keeping slaves, Paul even admonishes slaves to serve their masters well.

So while the abolitionists of the 19th century were morally right, they were on the losing side of a theological argument. As the Reverend Richard Fuller put it in 1845, "What God sanctioned in the Old Testament, and permitted in the New, cannot be a sin."

[no one]

One thing about chistiboi dogma, it certainly brings out the best in the hoomans.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bring it.

USN?

Nah, I'm talking about REAL sailors, not boys in their dress whites drinking shandies and pink umbrella drinks.

I was riverine for 2 years, 3 months, and 16 days.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You're a thankless shithead to all the heros of the past who made incredibly difficult incremental progress towards the recognition of human rights that now, in retrospect, seem obvious. But they definitly were not obvious back then.

And the reason it wasn't obvious in the past was because people followed the Bible where god clearly expects from people to keep slaves; makes it clear that every man is free to sell his daughter into sexual slavery; Jesus did not object to the practice of keeping slaves, Paul even admonishes slaves to serve their masters well.

So while the abolitionists of the 19th century were morally right, they were on the losing side of a theological argument. As the Reverend Richard Fuller put it in 1845, "What God sanctioned in the Old Testament, and permitted in the New, cannot be a sin."

And don't forget Lot, who offered his virgin daughters to the mob if they'd just leave the two supernatural beings in his house alone. Classy, real inspirational.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wouldn’t personally call human rights a convenient fiction. I’d call them burdening facts. We can ignore them, like we can ignore any fact. At our own peril- and in the case of human rights…usually at some else’s peril. I have a maximalist stance on the subject. So, for me - things like poverty and hunger need to be abolished. This isn’t convenient - nor is it fiction. Consider the question you asked “Which ones” - you’ve contextualized the set as negotiable- but the way I see it…it isn’t. The answer is all of them. The ones I can come up with and the ones that no one has thought of yet. They don’t depend on peoples opinions..or a gods opinions…or even a gods existence.

So we start in different places, very different places. It’s no surprise that I view Christian advocacy in a different light. What has it ever done but play and profit marginally supporting one human right in a negotiation to deprive us of others? -can- it actually do anything else..and still be more than nominal Christianity?

[Anomalocaris]

Human rights exist only by assertion and agreement.    It is fact only in the sense that where murder is against the law, it being against the law is a fact.   It is not fact in the sense that human rights would be detectable and measurable regardless of the legality, assertion or agreement, as gravity and evolution are facts detectable and measurable irrespective of assertion, agreement or any laws made for or against them.

The fact that we ignore an enforced law at our peril, or the law does indeed lead to significantly better regulating of the society,  does not make the justification used to enact the law a fact.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, that’s a position to hold. I’m just explaining that I see human rights as facts exactly like gravity or biology.

This is why I’m not impressed by negotiations between them, or any ideology…really… that reserves or asserts authority in contradiction to human rights. If you feed the poor while criminalizing a kiss, you are not a human rights advocate. You are not doing heroic work. I have nothing to thank you for…except…maybe thanking you for dying before you did even more harm. That’s Christianity, in a nutshell- for me.

[Angrboda]

Sure, that’s a position to hold.  I’m just explaining that I see human rights as facts exactly like gravity or biology.

This is why I’m not impressed by negotiations between them, or any ideology…really… that reserves or asserts authority in contradiction to human rights.  If you feed the poor while criminalizing a kiss, you are not a human rights advocate.  You are not doing heroic work.  I have nothing to thank you for…except…maybe thanking you for dying before you did even more harm.  That’s Christianity, in a nutshell- for me.

Got any evidence? Maybe even a coherent theory?

[The Grand Nudger]

Christianity’s record on human rights is what it is under any theory.

[Angrboda]

Christianity’s record on human rights is what it is under any theory.

I'll take that as a 'no'.