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[Serious] Opinions on paganism?
#71
RE: Opinions on paganism?
(November 6, 2023 at 10:32 am)Angrboda Wrote: If you say so.  However, these are common examples of the supernatural in history.  Even if they didn't happen, they establish the usage of the term supernatural according to English speakers and embody a conception of the supernatural which includes interaction with the natural world.  Now perhaps your understanding is contrary to this, and your private dictionary has a different concept of the supernatural, in which case you're no longer communicating and you're just talking to yourself.

How about you present some "common examples of the supernatural" in history, and tell us what that even means ? 
That some nuts say they saw a "miracle" ?
They establish nothing, except the way believers in the supernatural talk, and the presumption that anyone in 2023 acknowledges the supernatural is a 
step too far. I know what some people who talk about the supernatural think they mean. There is not one verified instance of "the supernatural" in history.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell  Popcorn

Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist 
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#72
RE: Opinions on paganism?
It's a double edged sword. You probably won't be able to think up an example of a supernatural assertion that doesn't imply or outright claim that the supernatural can interact with the natural. In your example above, the nuts say they saw it. Presumably...with their eyes. That's interaction with the natural. However, we define things today as belonging to the natural set because they are a set of things that interacts with each other.

This frustration appears in debates between material monists and dualists of any kind - when they notice that as we discover more and more...more and more gets included in what's "material".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#73
RE: Opinions on paganism?
(November 8, 2023 at 10:34 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(November 6, 2023 at 10:32 am)Angrboda Wrote: If you say so.  However, these are common examples of the supernatural in history.  Even if they didn't happen, they establish the usage of the term supernatural according to English speakers and embody a conception of the supernatural which includes interaction with the natural world.  Now perhaps your understanding is contrary to this, and your private dictionary has a different concept of the supernatural, in which case you're no longer communicating and you're just talking to yourself.

How about you present some "common examples of the supernatural" in history, and tell us what that even means ? 
That some nuts say they saw a "miracle" ?
They establish nothing, except the way believers in the supernatural talk, and the presumption that anyone in 2023 acknowledges the supernatural is a 
step too far. I know what some people who talk about the supernatural think they mean. There is not one verified instance of "the supernatural" in history.

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#74
RE: Opinions on paganism?
(November 8, 2023 at 12:11 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:
(November 5, 2023 at 10:16 pm)Ahriman Wrote: You're too stuck on the idea of needing hard evidence to consider possibilities beyond your limited scope of knowledge and understanding, i.e. you're just small-minded.

Other than evidence, what exactly would you suggest he use ? 
What have YOU found to be helpful in establishing reality, other than some sort of evidence ?

Evidently the reply is "nothing".
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