Palestine

[Leonardo17]

[Leonardo17]

[Leonardo17]

Stole this from that other forum. I found it a good read.

https://www.972mag.com/gaza-attack-context-israelis/

I truly wonder if Israelies and their allies are still human or not:

This is a terrible day. After waking up to air sirens under a barrage of hundreds of rockets fired on Israeli cities, we have been learning about the unprecedented assault by Palestinian militants from Gaza into Israeli towns bordering the strip.

The Jewish state have been besieging Gazza for decades and raining bombs on women and children.
They're getting the same treatment they have been giving to the natives of the land.

I mean aren't Russians who bomb Ukraine terrorists? isn't it justified for Ukraine to bomb Moscow?
Then why is it forbidden for natives of Palestine to bomb Zionists?

weird..double standards if you ask me.


This though:

In Gaza, meanwhile, the ongoing siege is continuously destroying the lives of over two million Palestinians, many of whom are living in extreme poverty, with little access to clean water and about four hours of electricity a day. This siege has no official endgame; even an Israeli State Comptroller report found that the government has never discussed long-term solutions to ending the blockade, nor seriously considered any alternatives to recurring rounds of war and death. It is literally the only option this government, and its predecessors, have on the table.

This is humanity at its worst really.
 
But let me tell you this: In the past I did believe (to an extent) in Yasser Arafat and the PLO (despite their extreme tactics).
 
But do you really think that Hamas etc. is / can do anything to solve this?
 
There has to be a logical approach here. I’m only about the people of Israel + the people of Palestine.
 
I don’t care about anything else. This conflict will have to end at some point right?

[Leonardo17]

When you put a rocket launcher on the roof of a school you've just recruited all the school kids downstairs into your army.  And when an Israeli F-16 takes out that so-designated missile platform the blood of the dead kids downstairs are not on the pilot nor his CO nor his country.

The IDF is bombing "randomly"; most of its airstrikes are targeting women and children to terrorize Hamas; the evidence is the amount of weapons and rockets Hamas has !

The IDF's airstrikes were never aimed toward enemy fighters or even enemy weapons; but towards civilians !

Why isn’t Egypt just taking these people then? Let Israel have whatever they want.
 
How does anyone live in a place like that?

[Leonardo17]

Is the world run by the arab moto and we all missed it?  Even in the notion of lex talionis, there's supposed to be consideration for proportionate and discriminating response.  It's not a head for an eye.  It's not the notion that one guy stabbing me gives me warrant to stab a third party.  Or, at least, when these things happen we don't think it's our best work.

Does the arab world judge the quality of it's military actions by how much cruelty they can inflict rather than how much good judgment they display?  The same question will now be asked of the israeli government, even in the context of granting an absolute right of self defense.  You seem like you're well aware of this - what with bitching about the great satan for years.

-and about that arab world.  They getting alot of full throated support over there in hamas at present?

The whole thing is completely messed up. And as I said before, there is no Arab world. Not in reality. This entire area in the past used to rich, prosperous, with poets, writers, schools, beautiful architecture, thriving industries, culture, beauty…
 
You know, Bon Jovi has very nice video clip called “Dry Country”.
 
That’s the only thing it is today. Just Oil, skyscraper and that’s it. The whole region. The “Arab World”.

[Leonardo17]

Sure, that's why the IDF always gives 'em ten mikes to clear the building, they're trying to kill civilians.  And Hamas' thousands of rockets are precision rounds that only land on military sites.

Oh, but demolishing the house of a poor family is okay ? and maybe they miss hearing the knocking on the roof ?

You know I did lash out on social media yesterday because of this.
 
Yes, I am with the people of Israel and I am with the people of Palestine.
 
But no, I’m not on the Side of Netanyahu and technically, it’s not possible for me to be on the side of Hamas.
 
God says “Vengeance in mine”. So we do not avenge people like that. That’s not how it works.

[Leonardo17]

On one hand Israeli is an awful corrupt state whose military has and does commit war crimes. On the other Hamas are not heroes either. Both sides of this conflict are in the wrong.

+ The Arab (political Islamist Arab) side is doing everything it can to keep countries like Iran + Turkey who have a secular culture to become more theocratized so they can easily pull us in these conflicts to “help our brothers in faith”.
 
I’m no one’s brother in faith. If they think their Wahhabi interpretation of Islam is solution then why don’t they solve it on their own? Why do they need me? (Or Iran, or anyone else?)
 
I don’t care about the Middle East anymore. The Brits + French took it from us more than a 100 year ago. So let them find a solution to this. (Forgive me; but I am really tense since the events started last Saturday)

[Leonardo17]

STOP SUPPORT FOR THIS NAZI REGIME

Yes, they are fascists. I agree with you on that. But Netanyahu’s right wing partners are the Jewish version of theocracy. They want to create a Jewish version or the IRI.
 
And that’s why so many Israelis have been protesting since he was elected.
 
So the Palestinians have a right to live. Yes. But no form of theocracy and/or authoritarianism can be a solution for anyone.
 
And we must stop seeing the other side as the enemy. Israelis have a right to life as much as the Palestinians. So the International Community has to start a new and serious type of Camp David on this.
 
Because as I said before. These is feeding the ideology of Political Islam around the world. Thus creating instability everywhere (A teacher was stabbed in France yesterday + 2 people were wounded in a local High school).
 
So something that doesn’t work has to be abandoned pure and simple.

[Leonardo17]

So then why are you complaining only about the Israelis? It's a war, and as you say, war is war. By your logic, Israel is entitled to raze Gaza and evict or kill its inhabitants. The rest of us can see the immorality of that.

There's your double-standard, complaining about Israeli war-crimes, ignoring Arab war-crimes. Fuckin' hypocrite.

Because 1 party is free (Israel), and the other party is imprisoned inside a concentration camp called "Gaza".

WHy don't they empty that whole area? (I'm asking because I really don't know)

[Leonardo17]

Is there any realistic potential for a lasting, peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestinian issue?

From my very limited understanding, Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel and its replacement with an Islamic state, and Israel is committed to its continued existence without threat/terror.  

These seem diametrically opposed goals.

I read some left-wing article here.
 
It was said the Hamas was created in the 80’s by the CIA + Mossad to weaken the position of the Socialist PLO.
 
So it’s a theory among others. But Terror is not a solution to terror. That’s for sure