Maybe I Just Solved the Palestinian Conflict

[Leonardo17]

I’ve recently viewed this video on youtube (you tube is full of very informational videos on almost every subject if you know how to use it): https://youtu.be/6by9AhV_PGM?t=945
 
   It’s about the Jewish population within the Ottoman Empire and under the Turkish Republic that started in 1923. It’s an interesting video because it shows how a nation that has been relatively good to its religious minorities finally ended up hurting those minorities when things started changing in the 19th century (with the rise of nationalism and importance given ethnic / religious identities after the renaissance and enlightenment era).
 
   My simple conclusion is that wherever there is some ethnical / religious or cultural identity there has to be some sort of answer for the need of that population to be able to live and celebrate these identities. In other words, I think it’s not an unrealistic expectation by the Jews to be able to have their own nation state in which the political changes that occur while they are trying to live in somebody else’s country will not have a direct effect of them.
 
I’m thinking of the İstanbul Pogrom of 1955 for instance in which Greek / Armenian and Jewish minorities where attacked by some political-Islamist groups and the authorities were unable to respond and prevent these acts of violence in time.
 
Yet this said, I cannot simply ignore the right of Palestinians either. The problem is this: Every Nation-State in this world has its own limited and maximalist view of itself (The current conflict between Cambodia and Thailand is also based on that). Here is an example of maximalist Greek ambitions for instance:


 
If we let them, they want all Mediterranean islands + half of what is actual Turkey.
 
Everyone knows that we cannot go anywhere with geographical ambitions like that. So supporting the basic idea behind what we describe as Zionism should not be confused with the maximalist ambitions of right extremist Jews that are based on some interpretation of some religious texts. I don’t think that anyone can go anywhere with this type of approach to religion or politics.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I’ve recently viewed this video on youtube (you tube is full of very informational videos on almost every subject if you know how to use it): https://youtu.be/6by9AhV_PGM?t=945
 
   It’s about the Jewish population within the Ottoman Empire and under the Turkish Republic that started in 1923. It’s an interesting video because it shows how a nation that has been relatively good to its religious minorities finally ended up hurting those minorities when things started changing in the 19th century (with the rise of nationalism and importance given ethnic / religious identities after the renaissance and enlightenment era).
 
   My simple conclusion is that wherever there is some ethnical / religious or cultural identity there has to be some sort of answer for the need of that population to be able to live and celebrate these identities. In other words, I think it’s not an unrealistic expectation by the Jews to be able to have their own nation state in which the political changes that occur while they are trying to live in somebody else’s country will not have a direct effect of them.
 
I’m thinking of the İstanbul Pogrom of 1955 for instance in which Greek / Armenian and Jewish minorities where attacked by some political-Islamist groups and the authorities were unable to respond and prevent these acts of violence in time.
 
Yet this said, I cannot simply ignore the right of Palestinians either. The problem is this: Every Nation-State in this world has its own limited and maximalist view of itself (The current conflict between Cambodia and Thailand is also based on that). Here is an example of maximalist Greek ambitions for instance:


 
If we let them, they want all Mediterranean islands + half of what is actual Turkey.
 
Everyone knows that we cannot go anywhere with geographical ambitions like that. So supporting the basic idea behind what we describe as Zionism should not be confused with the maximalist ambitions of right extremist Jews that are based on some interpretation of some religious texts. I don’t think that anyone can go anywhere with this type of approach to religion or politics.

You’ve described the problem. I didn’t see your solution.

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

I’ve recently viewed this video on youtube (you tube is full of very informational videos on almost every subject if you know how to use it): https://youtu.be/6by9AhV_PGM?t=945
 
   It’s about the Jewish population within the Ottoman Empire and under the Turkish Republic that started in 1923. It’s an interesting video because it shows how a nation that has been relatively good to its religious minorities finally ended up hurting those minorities when things started changing in the 19th century (with the rise of nationalism and importance given ethnic / religious identities after the renaissance and enlightenment era).
 
   My simple conclusion is that wherever there is some ethnical / religious or cultural identity there has to be some sort of answer for the need of that population to be able to live and celebrate these identities. In other words, I think it’s not an unrealistic expectation by the Jews to be able to have their own nation state in which the political changes that occur while they are trying to live in somebody else’s country will not have a direct effect of them.
 
I’m thinking of the İstanbul Pogrom of 1955 for instance in which Greek / Armenian and Jewish minorities where attacked by some political-Islamist groups and the authorities were unable to respond and prevent these acts of violence in time.
 
Yet this said, I cannot simply ignore the right of Palestinians either. The problem is this: Every Nation-State in this world has its own limited and maximalist view of itself (The current conflict between Cambodia and Thailand is also based on that). Here is an example of maximalist Greek ambitions for instance:


 
If we let them, they want all Mediterranean islands + half of what is actual Turkey.
 
Everyone knows that we cannot go anywhere with geographical ambitions like that. So supporting the basic idea behind what we describe as Zionism should not be confused with the maximalist ambitions of right extremist Jews that are based on some interpretation of some religious texts. I don’t think that anyone can go anywhere with this type of approach to religion or politics.

Zionism shouldn't be supported at all as Jews had no right to Palestine territory, just some religious fantasies.

[The Grand Nudger]

My simple conclusion is that wherever there is some ethnical / religious or cultural identity there has to be some sort of answer for the need of that population to be able to live and celebrate these identities. In other words, I think it’s not an unrealistic expectation by the Jews to be able to have their own nation state in which the political changes that occur while they are trying to live in somebody else’s country will not have a direct effect of them.

Congratulations, you're an ethnic nationalist.  Is this the product of true spirituality?

[awty]

Thank goodness. Leo and Youtube have saved the world. I might sleep through the night.

[The Grand Nudger]

Guess that would depend on where you tried to sleep. Might wanna do a bag test first.

[Rev. Rye]

I’ve recently viewed this video on youtube (you tube is full of very informational videos on almost every subject if you know how to use it): https://youtu.be/6by9AhV_PGM?t=945
 
   It’s about the Jewish population within the Ottoman Empire and under the Turkish Republic that started in 1923. It’s an interesting video because it shows how a nation that has been relatively good to its religious minorities finally ended up hurting those minorities when things started changing in the 19th century (with the rise of nationalism and importance given ethnic / religious identities after the renaissance and enlightenment era).
 
   My simple conclusion is that wherever there is some ethnical / religious or cultural identity there has to be some sort of answer for the need of that population to be able to live and celebrate these identities. In other words, I think it’s not an unrealistic expectation by the Jews to be able to have their own nation state in which the political changes that occur while they are trying to live in somebody else’s country will not have a direct effect of them.
 
I’m thinking of the İstanbul Pogrom of 1955 for instance in which Greek / Armenian and Jewish minorities where attacked by some political-Islamist groups and the authorities were unable to respond and prevent these acts of violence in time.
 
Yet this said, I cannot simply ignore the right of Palestinians either. The problem is this: Every Nation-State in this world has its own limited and maximalist view of itself (The current conflict between Cambodia and Thailand is also based on that). Here is an example of maximalist Greek ambitions for instance:


 
If we let them, they want all Mediterranean islands + half of what is actual Turkey.
 
Everyone knows that we cannot go anywhere with geographical ambitions like that. So supporting the basic idea behind what we describe as Zionism should not be confused with the maximalist ambitions of right extremist Jews that are based on some interpretation of some religious texts. I don’t think that anyone can go anywhere with this type of approach to religion or politics.

That's not a solution. That's just a restatement of several aspects of the problem. A solution would be something like: elect someone willing to talk like this to both Bibi and whoever is in charge of Palestine at the moment. 




Or, for that matter, travel back in time to when Theodor Herzl was still alive and show him scenes of what's going on in Gaza until he decides "fuck it. Maybe the best bet for the Jewish homeland is to just move to New York."

[Mr Greene]

Long story short; Theocracy is always going to wind up standing for injustice and discrimination. On a long enough timescale these should fade away, but what happens to the generations before that point is another question...

[Leonardo17]

Boru:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nat..._Palestine
 
+ the dismantling of all Israeli Colonies.
 
Or: the renegotiation of the partition plan for Palestine.
 
Denisovich:
 
- Yes. And that’s why I don’t like the idea of them taking all of Palestine. Palestinians have been living there since the Emperor Titus destroyed the Jewish state in the 1st century AD. That’s 2000 years of history (perhaps even more). So I support the two-state solution rather than anything else.
 
Nudger:
 
Nationalism is a rather new phenomenon. The reason why the Ottoman Empire collapsed is actually nationalism. As I said, In Istanbul you still have many churches, synagogues, mosques and many different religious groups and colors mainly because the Ottomans didn’t care about ethnic or religious identities. The only thing that mattered was allegiance to the emperor. In other words: obedience. All of this started to change in the 18th and 19th century. And that was the real end of the Ottoman and many other empires around the world.
 
In the 20th century, the communist had a different approach to ethnic identities. But you can look at the conflict in Yugoslavia in the 1990’s (and to the current situation in Russia) to see how this ended.
 
Spiritually speaking, the main idea or ideal is to identify with the universe itself (I am not saying I got there already)
 
But we are still living in an ego-age. So we have to accept the fact that most people will still identify themselves very strongly with their ethnic or religious heritage. And that’s not a purely evil condition either.
 
All I am saying is that I am not being prosecuted or mistreated for who I am here. I wouldn’t mind travelling to other places and getting to know people in these places. But right now I am in a place that belongs to me. I have a state, armed forces, a social state that is there to protect me and serve me at least in theory. And that’s very different for instance from being a minority group in the suburbs of another country (like Saint-Denis in Paris or something like that). I can even raise my voice here and people will have to listen even if the government turn into something similar to Russia / Iran or something like that.
 
So if there is a Jewish identity, it’s only human to agree that they should have some sort of place that they can treat as their own place.
 
But remember this: There have been many nations in this world whose identity have been lost, who were assimilated into other groups or who were simply erased or greatly reduced by a much stronger culture. I am thinking of all the south-Western parts of Russia. All these areas used to be occupied by many different Muslim, Turkic and/or other Indo-European nations and confederations who were simply taken over and eradicated by the expansionist Russian Empire in the 19th century.
 
These things are happening too. Once it happens it’s rather very difficult to reestablish these populations or cultures. Once they are gone they are usually gone forever.
 
Which is why I am still opposed to the Assimilation of Palestine into a Greater Israeli State. I think they should be thankful for what they have aready
 
Rye:
This cartoon is a bit Trumpish.
 
I am thinking of things more like the INF (nuclear non-proliferation) Treaty between Ronald Reagan and Michael Gorbatchev in 1987. Or the Oslo Accords (With Bill Clington, Yassar Arafat and Yitzak Rabin) in 1993. With much more serious and logical actors than today. Today The Israeli government is the most right-wing government ever. There is no Palestinian side (there simply isn’t). And the world in general is less orderly than the end of the cold-war era in the late 80’s, and early 90’s.
 
But that’s how we solve it. (Or that’s how I see it)
 
Greene:
That’s what I am saying basically. You cannot take some interpretation of some holy scriptures and try to apply this to politics and to the lives of millions of individuals. If you do you get that kind of (seemingly) insolvable problems and a state of permanent warfare.
 
So I like religion as a personal life-choice kind of framework. I dislike all forms of political religious approaches. This approach had its place in most societies 1000 years ago. I really don’t see where it can fit in the year 2026 even with D. Trump’s Palestinian Riviera Plans. To me this is madness. That’s all I am saying

[The Grand Nudger]

 
So if there is a Jewish identity, it’s only human to agree that they should have some sort of place that they can treat as their own place.

Wrong, it's only ethnic nationalism.  

Here, let me help you see it.  If there is such a thing as white identity, it's only human to agree that they should have some sort of place that they can treat as their own place. We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.