What if martians invaded?

[awty]

[The Grand Nudger]

We'd rob them, look for maps, and invade their home planet.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm not sure it would be very different than a catastrophic virus or cometary impact. We have always been dancing in the middle of the cosmic shooting gallery.

[Fireball]

OP: If'n the dog hadn't stopped to shit, he'd've caught the rabbit.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Duck Dodgers will save us.

Boru

[Belacqua]

If an alien invasion occurred, what would it mean for humanity and human civilization as we know it? How would our way of life change? Would humanity attempt to defend itself? Does civilization adapt and reorganize, or slowly fracture? I’m interested in realistic perspectives on how humanity and civilization would respond.

It's a fascinating thought experiment. Since it's never happened so far, we can only imagine it by extrapolating from known events -- for example, the meeting of different cultural groups in the past. Europe opening up Japan, or the Mongols taking China, that kind of thing. 

If we imagine a culture that could actually get here from another planet, I think we'd have to assume that their technology is enormously superior to ours. And that means that the could wipe us out in a minute if they wanted to. 

So that means the evil attack scenarios are probably not that interesting. We'd lose, that would be it. 

But if we imagine them as wanting to help, that opens up different questions. What kind of help would they offer, for example? What kind of help would we accept? 

Let's say they offer sufficient energy resources so we no longer have to kill each other over oil (an activity which has dominated recent history). Is it possible for people to calm down enough to enjoy prosperity? Or would we find other reasons to kill each other? It often seems to me that people look for fights as a way to give themselves a self-definition. 

(Did you see the recent TV series "Pluribus"? It was a show about aliens sending us something they thought we would want, although not everyone really did.) 

What are your thoughts on this? Are you writing a science fiction novel?

[Litmus]

If an alien invasion occurred, what would it mean for humanity and human civilization as we know it? How would our way of life change? Would humanity attempt to defend itself? Does civilization adapt and reorganize, or slowly fracture? I’m interested in realistic perspectives on how humanity and civilization would respond.

It's a fascinating thought experiment. Since it's never happened so far, we can only imagine it by extrapolating from known events -- for example, the meeting of different cultural groups in the past. Europe opening up Japan, or the Mongols taking China, that kind of thing. 

If we imagine a culture that could actually get here from another planet, I think we'd have to assume that their technology is enormously superior to ours. And that means that the could wipe us out in a minute if they wanted to. 

So that means the evil attack scenarios are probably not that interesting. We'd lose, that would be it. 

But if we imagine them as wanting to help, that opens up different questions. What kind of help would they offer, for example? What kind of help would we accept? 

Let's say they offer sufficient energy resources so we no longer have to kill each other over oil (an activity which has dominated recent history). Is it possible for people to calm down enough to enjoy prosperity? Or would we find other reasons to kill each other? It often seems to me that people look for fights as a way to give themselves a self-definition. 

(Did you see the recent TV series "Pluribus"? It was a show about aliens sending us something they thought we would want, although not everyone really did.) 

What are your thoughts on this? Are you writing a science fiction novel?






I think that’s exactly why the “helpful” scenario is the most revealing.

Even if an outside group is vastly more capable and not hostile, their arrival still isn’t neutral. Large numbers, arriving quickly, inevitably reshape norms, institutions, and everyday life—whether that’s intended or not.

The question that interests me isn’t “are they good or evil,” but whether any civilization can absorb sudden, external change at scale without losing cohesion in the process.

History suggests that pace and volume matter at least as much as intentions.

(No it's just a thought experiment. I don't think I'm bright enough to write a novel. I'm not familiar with Pluribus I'm afraid. )

[Thumpalumpacus]

Even if an outside group is vastly more capable and not hostile, their arrival still isn’t neutral. Large numbers, arriving quickly, inevitably reshape norms, institutions, and everyday life—whether that’s intended or not.

I know I'm belaboring the obvious, but even in the event of a peaceful encounter, I think the largest effect will be in humans learning that they aren't unique in the universe representing intelligent life. The religious and cultural implications of that knowledge will have far-reaching ripples in our own history.

[Belacqua]

I think that’s exactly why the “helpful” scenario is the most revealing.

Even if an outside group is vastly more capable and not hostile, their arrival still isn’t neutral. Large numbers, arriving quickly, inevitably reshape norms, institutions, and everyday life—whether that’s intended or not.
The question that interests me isn’t “are they good or evil,” but whether any civilization can absorb sudden, external change at scale without losing cohesion in the process.

History suggests that pace and volume matter at least as much as intentions.

(No it's just a thought experiment. I don't think I'm bright enough to write a novel. I'm not familiar with Pluribus I'm afraid. )

In the show "Pluribus," aliens don't visit but they send a virus that makes every human being share a single mind. Suddenly there's peace love and understanding, but at the expense of individuality. Of course the show focusses on the one or two individuals who are immune from the virus. 

I wouldn't say it's a great show, but it's the general sort of question you raise -- the aliens give us what they think we'd want. 

In real-life history, the case I know best is how Japan opened up to the West. Though they were forced to accept more trade, Japanese people were careful and intentional about what Western customs they would adopt. In many cases there were very deliberate discussions about to what extent the new ideas could be taken in while retaining the good parts of the old system. 

In particular, it's fascinating to study the way intellectuals integrated philosophical concepts into traditional Japanese thought. There was no category for "art," for example, so when they started to translate European aesthetic philosophy into Japanese, they had to come up with a new term. It is helpful in that it provided new concepts and categories to think about the world -- and it's always helpful to have these new tools. But that doesn't mean that the old ways of categorizing things should be jettisoned wholesale. 

My guess is that modern Japanese people are glad to have much of the Western culture they adopted. (e.g. women's rights, modern medicine) But they are still aware and wary about influences.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Litmus

Even if an outside group is vastly more capable and not hostile, their arrival still isn’t neutral. Large numbers, arriving quickly, inevitably reshape norms, institutions, and everyday life—whether that’s intended or not.

The question that interests me isn’t “are they good or evil,” but whether any civilization can absorb sudden, external change at scale without losing cohesion in the process.

Yes, civilizations can withstand sudden, external change without losing cohesion in the process - it actually happens quite a lot.

In fact, sudden, external change has been known make civilizations more cohesive, rather than less. An example that comes to mind is the Roman conquest of England. After some fits and starts in the beginning (notably Boudicca), England was transformed from a gaggle of petty kingdoms into a more or less unified whole as a Roman province. When the conquerors left four centuries later, the Britons were devastated, to put it mildly. The cultural impact of Rome was a net positive and without it, England quickly backslid. 

Boru