Yes God Exists

[Unapologetics]

Oh my god, what a pile of .....woo. quantum woo to be precise, to nobody's surprise.

No, the "quantum realm" does NOT exist outside space and time, you know nothing about other universes, particularly not if consciousness is part of them, and all the other garbage you spewed is just that: garbage

Quantum exists outside the natural world and is not restricted by the laws of phsyics. Quantum particles interact with the physcial world, but exist outside of it. So if you want to say all the scientists are wrong, so be it but it is not an argument that has much to stand on.

[Deesse23]

I randomly took two words from your wall of text: Perfect justice:
Is it perfect justice to punish people for things they have not done?

If it is, should we not adapt perfect justice in our society and start punishing people for things they have not done?

Both of these questions can be answered with yes or no as a foundation for further discussion.

If you meant to punish people for the act of committing a crime but they didn't actually commit that crime, then the answer would be no since that is the definition of injustice.

To answer the second question, yes we should adapt perfect justice in our society, but no we should not do it by implementing a system of injustice.

Thank you.

Now, the christian god loves to punish people for crimes that others have committed and thus is unjust as we just agreed on. With that in mind, do you still stick to your claims below?
I pointed out the relevant parts by putting them in bold letters.

To use Christianity as an easy example we can see a set of promises that seem on the face to be outlandish, but I will argue that it does not take faith at all to believe in them. Those promises are eternal life, God's kingdom, God on the throne, heaven,  resurrection, and perfect justice. When you look at every tradition, every empire, every religion, and every worldview they are all attempting to accomplish the same goals. To create healthcare that will keep you alive indefinitely (eternal life), create a one world authority (God's kingdom), to place a good person in the seat of power over that authority (God), to make society a utopia for all (heaven), to bring back our loved ones (resurrection), and to establish fair laws (perfect justice).

[Paleophyte]

The main point is that what Christianity and all other religions promise is what all of humanity is already working toward and are just inevitable outcomes.

Christianity and the other religions were never working toward any of these lofty goals. They failed to get anything done for thousands of years, which was unsurprising given that they never pretended to try in most cases. We started doing that after we abandoned religion as a bad job, got off our knees, unclasped our hands, and rolled up our sleeves to do some honest work. Your god is nothing more than imagination superstition propped up by flowery phrases.

[Deesse23]

Oh my god, what a pile of .....woo. quantum woo to be precise, to nobody's surprise.

No, the "quantum realm" does NOT exist outside space and time, you know nothing about other universes, particularly not if consciousness is part of them, and all the other garbage you spewed is just that: garbage

Quantum exists outside the natural world and is not restricted by the laws of phsyics. Quantum particles interact with the physcial world, but exist outside of it. So if you want to say all the scientists are wrong, so be it but it is not an argument that has much to stand on.

You are flat out wrong. Please stop embarrassing yourself.  Do you know about a discipline called "Quantum physics"? Everything about quantum physics is within the realm of spacetime.

You have bought into new age quantum woo bullshit. Please pull your head out of your behind. Its easy to figure out. Google is your friend

[Paleophyte]

Oh my god, what a pile of .....woo. quantum woo to be precise, to nobody's surprise.

No, the "quantum realm" does NOT exist outside space and time, you know nothing about other universes, particularly not if consciousness is part of them, and all the other garbage you spewed is just that: garbage

Quantum exists outside the natural world and is not restricted by the laws of phsyics. Quantum particles interact with the physcial world, but exist outside of it. So if you want to say all the scientists are wrong, so be it but it is not an argument that has much to stand on.

No, it doesn't. Quantum mechanics describes the interaction of subatomic particles. It doesn't "exist outside the natural world". How would you ever measure that FFS? And please don't try to blame "the scientists" for your criminally poor understanding of quantum mech. That's all on you and your woo.

[Deesse23]

Quantum exists outside the natural world and is not restricted by the laws of phsyics. Quantum particles interact with the physcial world, but exist outside of it. So if you want to say all the scientists are wrong, so be it but it is not an argument that has much to stand on.

No, it doesn't. Quantum mechanics describes the interaction of subatomic particles. It doesn't "exist outside the natural world". How would you ever measure that FFS? And please don't try to blame "the scientists" for your criminally poor understanding of quantum mech. That's all on you and your woo.

Dude was talking about Dunning-Kruger a few posts ago as confident (about others´ shortcomings) as only someone suffering from this very condition can.

@Unapologetics : What are your credentials wrt to (quantum) physics?

[Unapologetics]

The use of italics for any gods and use of the word bullshit indicates a level of disdain for the topic and your extremely inflexible concept of ressurection implies a lackof imagination.

Disdain? Yes, definitely. As for the Resurrection, it's simple: Dead people stay dead. Why should we assume otherwise on the sole basis of a dubious and ancient tale? Is it a "lack of imagination" to discard obvious mythology in favour of the reality that dead people stay dead?

If you really want, I can demonstrate my imagination by visualizing Jesus exploding in mid-air  and thousands of google-eyed bats emerging from the cloud of divine guts. The guts splatter on the ground, and popes and cardinals pop out of the ground like daffodils. Happy now?  

The use of "strongly-held" suggests that it is something you are actively clutching and refuse to let go of. In other words, it is a desire of yours for it to be true.

In this case, "strongly-held" indicates that I am familiar with human history and anthropology and medicine, and have extremely well-justified reasons for rejecting Christianity's assertions because none of them are even remotely believable.

• Eternal life: Appears to be impossible. No evidence that the self can exist independent of a living body.
  
• Do you actually think that the many non-benign people on Earth wouldn't be able to depose a single benign ruler, and/or carve up his "kingdom" for themselves?
  
• Society is made up of people. People are all different. There's no way to arrange the "puzzle" into any one pattern and have it stay that way.
  
• Dead people stay dead, and there's no evidence for a soul.
  
• Justice can't be locked down into a perfect form. It needs to adapt to changes in culture.
  

Although I know that you don't actually believe what you say here...

(Springy G smiles a very unsettling smile) You have been found guilty of bearing false witness. Your punishment is to lose your faith and never regain it. (bangs gavel). Court dismissed.

It is easy to imagine based on where technology is headed that immortality and ressurection are possible. Recent breakthroughs regarding telomeres is just one example of many. But you haven't engaged with anything I said so it is impossible to have a real discussion here. I think you are just expressing your desire for it not to ever happen.

You are conflating eternal life with "heavenly bliss in the clouds" or something like that. I am simply talking about immortality. Which can be achieved through the transfer of conciseness, transhumanism, better healthcare, etc.

You fail to see that we already make systems that adapt and change according to the differences in human behavior so your inability to imagine it is really your refusal to just look around. I think what you are referring to is the failed systems that are all rigid and refuse to allow for humans to expressed their individuality and eventually fail. So flexibility and adaptability will predictably be part of the system that humans eventually create to instill law and order.

There is not even agreement to what a soul is, so evidence of it will have to wait until there is consesnsus. But based on how it is historically used, a soul is your identity, called the ego by Freud, and there is evidence of this.

Yes, justice can and does adapt. But perfect justice is about the result not the system or laws themselves.

I get that you think you believe what you said, but that is because you are purposely straw manning. So when I swap out reality with the straw man you built then your words fly counter to what I know to be true. But you obviously have no intention of letting go of your straw man, so we just have to agree to disagree.

[Unapologetics]

Valhalla seems something other than peaceful.  I think that it might be more the case that religions born of panic and disaster tend to, but do not necessarily, posit a more peaceful next life.  They act like superstitions in that way, providing us a sense of control in stressful situations beyond our ability to resolve.  Judaism was born of conquest and exile.  Christianity the antonine plagues.  Islam of byzantine and sasanian collapse.  

The pedigree is strong with abrahamism.

But I am not talking about "the next life" I am talking about the future. The idea of waiting until "the next life" is religion's way of getting people to not expect the power structure of today to go along with the stated goals. And while I agree I would not want to party in the drunken halls of Valhalla if I was looking for peace, but the point is that it is a display of what the warriors did during peace time which is to party and drink.

[Paleophyte]

It is easy to imagine based on where technology is headed that immortality and ressurection are possible.

It's easy to see that you're backing superstition with wishful thinking. The fact that we may one day achieve what religion promised in no way supports religion. Rather the opposite.

You are conflating eternal life with "heavenly bliss in the clouds" or something like that.

And you're conflating potential technological advances with religious success. We did this on our own. Gods didn't even assemble the PCBs.

You fail to see that...

You fail to engage without acting like a supercilious turd. Stop talking down your nose as if you knew shit about shit. We fail to agree, which shouldn't surprise you in the least.

There is not even agreement to what a soul is, so evidence of it will have to wait until there is consesnsus.

Religion's failure to define its terms is not an endorsement. The more we look for the soul, the more we find nothing. How many times do you want to measure zero?

[Unapologetics]

I guess I was naive to expect a modicum of sophistication on these forums rather than a bunch of fools itching to prove the stereotypes right.

In what way was crapping all over a community that you just joined likely to encourage civil discourse? But hey, thanks for helping prove those stereotypes right.
To keep matters simple, there is precisely one religion that refers to their god as "God". If you're talking about anything else, then you need to be very specific and very clear, because it looks a great deal like you're championing the existence of the Christian deity. You have been neither. We know where the Christian god comes from and it's a bad joke. If you aren't going to address the archeological evidence on that one then fine, Ugaritic tablets and syncretism aren't everybody's cup of Mocha, but you can say as much without being a festering turd. Kindly take your arrogant righteousness, self-appointed sense of superiority and higher-than-thou insults, fold them until they're all pointy corners, and pound them up your ass.

Your choice to identify with the fools I was referring to is not my doing. If you want to say the trolling is indicative of the entire community, that is not me crapping on the community that is you crapping on them. The word God is an English word with a recent origin, not a word that goes back thousands of years. And this Egnlish word is used to describe dieties of every religions. While modern day English translation of the Bible swap out Elohim for God and Yahweh for Lord, it does not change that God is a word with a conceptual meaning far beyond what Christians think or use it for. And if you take the capital away from god it completely changes the context and meaning which is why I am using the capital version.